Arthur and Gwen Rewatching Merlin 1x03 – The Mark Of Nimueh

ellarose88 posted on Jan 26, 2013 at 09:34PM
Now that the show has ended let’s go back and rewatch the episodes with a whole new perspective. We have watched the characters develop and gotten to know them well. Some we love more than others, but now our perspectives have changed as we know how everything turns out. Let’s have fun looking at the story unfold with our new perspectives from when we first watched the respective episodes. (Thanks to the folks over at tvdotcom for ideas we’ve borrowed from them.)


Moderators for Season 1:
HumbleQueen
Sportyshuie
Ellarose88
[others...]



Rules are as follows:

I. We are getting started with 1x01 on Saturday, January 12, 2013 and a new forum will be opened every following Saturday. Moderators will post following the order in the list above to open threads and we’ll be watching the episodes in sequence. We will then be watching the last episode of Season 1 (1x13) on the week beginning April 6th.

II. Every moderator opening a rewatching thread should copy and paste the information in this entry (Introduction, List of moderators, Rules and Master List) at the top. That way, keeping track of the turns and our progress will be easier and also having the rules at hand will be useful for those who may have decided to join us part way through.

III. Everyone opening a rewatching thread is responsible for reminding the next person in the list to do the same the following Saturday (sending a pm on Friday should do it).

IV. Anyone not being able to open a thread on a particular Saturday can swap turns with the next person in the list (or anyone else) as long as they keep track of their respective turns.

V. People taking part can jump in with comments, but just because you watch and comment on a particular episode does not mean it’s compulsory to watch every single episode to be a part of this rewatching.

VI. Anyone is most welcome to join at any time. Also, new moderators will be added to the list when we get them.

VII. If you don’t have dvd’s or subscribe to Netflix or Amazon Prime, the first four seasons are available free (with ads) on hulu: link

Also famfan suggested link

VIII. Constructive criticism of characters/actors is always in order, but please no bashing.

IX. Let’s have fun down memory lane. Be inspired to do fanfics, fanvids, and fanart.

Here’s a master list of a twelve items we’ll be looking for in all episodes. The moderator will post the lists (as filled in) at her convenience. Anybody can suggest any they see though. Mods will also be posting their own questions for discussion.


A. Anything that has to do with Arwen.
Arthur arrests Gwen for sorcery
Arthur is uncomfortable in the throne room when his father sentences her.
Arthur seems upset at the end of the scene where she's sentenced.
Arthur is quick to do something to help Gwen when asked by Morgana.
B. Lives saved.
Gwen's Dad
C. R.I.P. list.
Long list, but nobody we know I think
D. Who spent time in the dungeon?
Gwen.
E. Times Arthur is knocked unconscious or prevented from knowing about Merlin's magic
F. Great dragon predictions/riddles.
G. Statements about Arthur becoming the great king of legend.
H. What Uther says about magic.
I. Progress or resets in Arthur/Merlin relationship.
J. Guest star special characters.
Michelle Ryan as Nimueh.
K. Morgana dreams.
L. Knights of the round table appearances.
 Now that the toon has ended let’s go back and rewatch the episodes with a whole new perspective. We
last edited on Jan 31, 2013 at 11:03PM

Arthur and Gwen 22 antwoorden

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een jaar geleden ellarose88 said…
kiss
My questions for discussion:

1. What do you think were Nimueh’s motives for sending a plaque to Camelot other than the most obvious? (without knowing what we learnt in her next appearance/s)

2. This marks the first appearance of Gwen’s father, what did you think of him? Did you get the feeling that he has a close relationship with his daughter? Or did you feel we should have had more scenes of them together in this episode?

3. What did you think of Gaius and Merlin’s investigation of the cause of the plague? Did you think that they should have worked it out earlier?

4. How did you feel Uther handled the situation with the plague? Do you think that Arthur agreed with his father’s handling of the situation?

5. Discuss Gwen and Merlin’s relationship progress in this episode.

6. Do you think Merlin was reckless in using magic to save Gwen’s father? Do you think he fully considered the consequences of his actions or was acting from his heart solely?

7. What do you think you of Arthur’s character progression in this episode? What hints did you see that makes you think that he knew Gwen was innocent? What were they? Do you think he came to this conclusion because of Morgana’s speech to Uther or due to his own observations?

8. Did you think that Gaius should have spoken up to Uther about Gwen, proclaiming her innocence or was he right in finding proof of her innocence through evidence first?

9. What did you think of Morgana’s devotion to Gwen? Was it genuine at this point? (seeing as we know how that friendship ends)

10. Arthur manages to convince the council and his father that Merlin is love sick; do you think that Arthur feels that Merlin does indeed have a crush on Gwen? Or was Arthur just coming up with an excuse to save his servant?

11. Morgana agrees to help Merlin and Gaius prove Gwen’s innocence and approaches Arthur; what did you feel about that exchange? Did you notice any differences or similarities between this scene and the Arwen scene in 2x07 when Gwen agrees to do the same thing?

12. When Arthur says “Maybe it is because I haven’t found the right person to love”, do you believe him? Is this a hint to the fact that he ends up marrying Gwen? (seeing as this is what indeed does happen in series 4)

13. Discuss any plot holes you discovered in this episode.

14. How did you find the pacing of the episode when compared to the last two episodes?

15. What are your thoughts on the Great Dragon’s talk with Merlin on how he can stop the plague?

16. What were your favourite moments from the episode?

*~*

Sorry that I posted a lot of questions. But once I started thinking of them, they kept coming. You don’t have to answer all of them. You can answer the ones that you want. Hell, if you want you could come back several times to answer them. It’s up to you.

I really enjoyed watching this episode and can’t wait to discuss it with everyone.

Have fun!
last edited een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden HumbleQueen said…
wink
Well, This will be interesting and I'll probably get to this early next week. This was a good one. You guys fell right in with the questions thing. See how hard it is to limit them? Great Job and lovely image there, Millie. Don't expect anything nearly that lovely when it's my turn to post.
ellarose88 commented…
It is hard to them. But I don't expect everyone to answer all of them. The image is from Merlin's Keep! I saw u guys use the promotional pics for the other discussions so I did the same thing. een jaar geleden
sportyshuie commented…
It's nice to have promotional image as it marks the episode each week. And great vragen Millie. u are right about the though. It just starts coming once you've put your mind to it. Will get to it either monday of turesday coz' i'm down with flu and still recovering. Can't wait to get cracking. een jaar geleden
ellarose88 commented…
I think I added the right link to the post Nanna! I hope u do get to it soon. Dying to hear other people's thoughts on the episode. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
smile
Oh millie ... you may want to edit the link above (to view the episodes) .. use mine as it's more accurate. This one has some errors .. some words missing because when i tried out it will not work. Mine has been altered and it's in my forum.
ellarose88 commented…
Thanks for letting me know. Just fixed it! een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden MISAforever said…
wink
I don't have time today, so I'll do it ASAP but I will do it!
ellarose88 commented…
Can't wait to hear your thoughts Joppa! een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden ellarose88 said…
Okay I'm gonna go first to get us started! I'm going to answer a few though as I came up with too many questions. That and I need to rewatch this episode again to answer some of the questions I came up with.

1. What do you think were Nimueh’s motives for sending a plaque to Camelot other than the most obvious? (without knowing what we learnt in her next appearance/s)

Well without thinking about what happens in her next appearances, its clear that Nimueh wants revenge against Uther. But more than that, she is willing to kill innocent people to hurt Uther. Or is her purpose to eventually kill the king. Seeing as she doesn't say much in the episode it is hard to tell from this appearance. But its interesting that she is able to watch Camelot and knows Merlin stopped her. Really, it makes me think that Morgana could have done that to work out who Emrys was.

6. Do you think Merlin was reckless in using magic to save Gwen’s father? Do you think he fully considered the consequences of his actions or was acting from his heart solely?

Like the previous episodes Merlin is lacking a little in maturity and its interesting looking back here to see how much he has changed and how he is a little the same. He sees the amount of hurt and pain Gwen is in and is willing to do what he can to help her father without thinking much of the consequences. This results in Gaius taking on a father role and telling Merlin the errors in his plan. Unfortunately because Merlin listened to his heart, he did not consider that he would end up getting Gwen into trouble. I wouldn't say Merlin was reckless, but I do believe he should have thought through his plan more carefully.

7. What do you think you of Arthur’s character progression in this episode? What hints did you see that makes you think that he knew Gwen was innocent? What were they? Do you think he came to this conclusion because of Morgana’s speech to Uther or due to his own observations?

I really felt Arthur's progression in this episode. You could clearly see his conflicting feelings when he question Tom about how he got better, when Gwen's house was searched and finally when he had no choice but to arrest Gwen. You could see that when Gwen was pleading her innocence and Morgana was standing up to Uther, Arthur was truly listening and I love that moment when Arthur talks against his father. That was the moment we saw a glimpse of the real Arthur and what he stands for I think. Especially when he says something along the lines that maybe Gwen used magic, but to save her father and that isn't evil.

It's a pity that they only showed moments like this throughout the show and then backtracked or forgot about it. Why? Because it would have been nice for Arthur to see that magic in itself isn't evil, but rather it is like a sword, only the person who wields it decides how it is used. That little moment in the episode, looking back on it made me think that Arthur always may have had doubts in the back of his mind about his father's views towards magic even in series 1 and I find that interesting.

Snapshot art by simply-ally152


last edited een jaar geleden
 [i]Okay I'm gonna go first to get us started! I'm going to answer a few though as I came up with too
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
Right ... i just watched half and my flu is still bugging me so the other half will have to wait until tomorrow. I like this episode because it shows the close relationship between all the characters; merlin/gaius, merlin/gwen, arthur/uther, arthur/morgana, morgana/gwen, gwen/tom. And this was the episode which brought our OTP together in a scene. YAY! And i was excited with that alone. Now, i think i'll answer the first question. Nmueh's motive She is angry at Uther. He killed her friends and families and caused the purge. We know she helped with Arthur's birth and she is also responsible for the queen's death though her reason is valid. And because of that, Uther declared war against sorcery and in the purge many druids were killed. Nimueh watched and heard all this cries and for that alone, she vows to avenge their death. SO she doesnt want to kill Uther fast. She hits him where it hurts the most. She starts wiping out the people first. That madness will drive Uther crazy and then she will finish him. I guess that's her motive. Unfortunately, she didn't know about Merlin.
MISAforever commented…
Aww honey, hope u get better soon. drink lots of fluids ( tea) <3 een jaar geleden
ellarose88 commented…
Oh I hope u feel better soon. Lovely answer, although the vraag did say without mentioning what happens in her volgende episode/s, so u wouldn't know the hand she played in helping Uther have Arthur. And that is what resulted in the Great Purge. een jaar geleden
sportyshuie commented…
ahh yes ... the vraag was tempting, lol!!! So ... i think she is angry at Uther for something he did to her. Personally perhaps? And she wants him dead! And i has this craziest idea this morning when i visited the doctor! LOL, yes ... the doctor actually resembled Uther ... hahaha!! Anyway, we knew about Nimueh's presence in Camelot after the arrival of Merlin. But we also know magic is banned in Camelot door Uther though he doesnt state why. And then Nimueh attacks Camelot. Has been she been constantly attacking Camelot and why Uther decided to ban magic? Now, bearing Milie's vraag we don't know anything about her assist in Arthur's birth. So i assume Uther to be a normal king and Arthur born through normal birth. SO, perhaps Nimueh attacks camelot and Uther consistently with magic and why Uther chose to ban it. And when Merlin arrived, the plot thickens. I don't know if my answer here made sense of not but if it doesn't ... forgive me. My mind is clouded door my flu bug! LOL!! een jaar geleden
sportyshuie commented…
Thanks joppa and millie ... will heed your advice. :) een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden famfan said…
smile
Overall:

I really enjoyed this episode, the flow and the use of the character was balanced and informative. The CGI was awful but you can't always get everything you want... lol

A few questions...

4.) How did you feel Uther handled the situation with the plague? Do you think that Arthur agreed with his father’s handling of the situation?

Actually, I thought that Uther handled the situation well. Most of the case were in the lower town, hence sectioning it off was a good one yet hard one. Uther was also spot on about what the people would do if the king could not find a cure, they would turn to magic. Which could have been apart of Nimuh plan all along.

In terms of Gwen: Uther rushes to judgment IMO, if she was the witch why would her father have even got sick in the first place? They should have asked were she acquired the poultice that saved her father. In terms of the future King, IMO Morgana was used her head and heart more wisely then Uther of Arthur. Yes good leader 1st have to follow, but they speak when necessary. Arthur seemed cowed by his father, I am not entirely sure this is a good trait for the future king of Camelot.

7. What do you think you of Arthur’s character progression in this episode? What hints did you see that makes you think that he knew Gwen was innocent? What were they? Do you think he came to this conclusion because of Morgana’s speech to Uther or due to his own observations?

Arthur in the first episode is behaving like a jerk. In this episode, you get the impression that he likes his new man servant and cares about the people of Camelot. My only question is, could he have really been that oblivious in terms of Gwen. It was unclear what he felt about Gwen, I don't think he believe she was guilty but he wasn't sure enough to actually argue with his father on her behalf.

Hind sight... Arthur is to transparent. Honestly, he already blindly trust Merlin, more then Gwen. He already has a big heart, thought as prince he doesn't have the authority to defy the king. It could also be argued that he is nicer to Merlin in a way. It was to soon, Arthur should have remained a bit of an enigma.

16. What were your favourite moments from the episode? Gwen's talk with Merlin while in prison. Even now it makes me cry. Gwen did more to communicate how it must have felt to be a sorcerer in Camelot then any actual sorcerer ever did.

I loved this episode, every character was developed, no scene IMO was wasted. Honestly the acting is this episode was great. People are going to kill me but Katie was better then Bradley in this episode IMO.
sportyshuie commented…
No famfam. I liked Katie a lot in Season 1. And she was the reason i accepted Morgana in my life ... better fared than in the legend alas, they started destroying her as the series moves on. een jaar geleden
ellarose88 commented…
I personally think that though the writers stuffed if Morgana's story, some of it lays on Katie. I think she lacks the emotional depth and range that the others have. I was quite disappointed that after 5 years on Merlin the lack of progress in her acting. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden MISAforever said…
big smile
1. What do you think were Nimueh’s motives for sending a plaque to Camelot other than the most obvious? (without knowing what we learnt in her next appearance/s)
--This is answered above and there are pretty good answers. I just wanna add that considering the fact that the show is almost based on this fact, I think there hasn't been enough development between these two chracters. Uther and Nimueh should have had an epic fight and some serious issues should have been brought up. We saw none of that and therefor I was disappointed.

2. This marks the first appearance of Gwen’s father, what did you think of him? Did you get the feeling that he has a close relationship with his daughter? Or did you feel we should have had more scenes of them together in this episode?
-- I always we felt we haven't had enough of him. But the show hasn't had enough of Gwen, and not mention her father. I liked him. I really did. He seemed like a really nice man and it was sweet to see him interact with Gwen.

3. What did you think of Gaius and Merlin’s investigation of the cause of the plague? Did you think that they should have worked it out earlier?
--In almost every episode of Merlin they should have worked it out earlier, but I guess the half of episode would be gone then.

4. How did you feel Uther handled the situation with the plague? Do you think that Arthur agreed with his father’s handling of the situation?
--Definitely no, but I don't think he was strong enough at that time to say no to him. He still looked up to him so much. He was actually charming. Like a little boy. Only it was a wrong choice.

6. Do you think Merlin was reckless in using magic to save Gwen’s father? Do you think he fully considered the consequences of his actions or was acting from his heart solely?
-- Oh, he was reckless. But I guess that's what anyone would have done for someone dear to them. It was understandable, and not that wrong. It's hard to say because it's not black and white situation.

7. What do you think you of Arthur’s character progression in this episode? What hints did you see that makes you think that he knew Gwen was innocent? What were they? Do you think he came to this conclusion because of Morgana’s speech to Uther or due to his own observations?
--" I don't believe evil's in this girl's heart" awwwwwwwwwww moment!! I believe he really belived that because that is what he felt in his heart, not beacuse of Morgana or Uther.

8. Did you think that Gaius should have spoken up to Uther about Gwen, proclaiming her innocence or was he right in finding proof of her innocence through evidence first?
-- Hmm, I think even if he did, Uther wouldn't listen to him. To speak against Uther's decision, people always need evidence. That is what I have learnt in season 1.

9. What did you think of Morgana’s devotion to Gwen? Was it genuine at this point? (seeing as we know how that friendship ends)
-- Yes, definitely yes. I truly believe she was good in heart.

10. Arthur manages to convince the council and his father that Merlin is love sick; do you think that Arthur feels that Merlin does indeed have a crush on Gwen? Or was Arthur just coming up with an excuse to save his servant?
-- Excuse, and I am sticking to that :P

11. Morgana agrees to help Merlin and Gaius prove Gwen’s innocence and approaches Arthur; what did you feel about that exchange? Did you notice any differences or similarities between this scene and the Arwen scene in 2x07 when Gwen agrees to do the same thing?
-- I liked when Morgana confronted Arthur. I always thought of them as sibilings and I wanted to see more of their interaction. But it never felt right, at least not with me. And when Gwen confronted him, she practically gave him no choice. She was stronger and more confident with herself. I cannot even complare these two scenes.

12. When Arthur says “Maybe it is because I haven’t found the right person to love”, do you believe him? Is this a hint to the fact that he ends up marrying Gwen? (seeing as this is what indeed does happen in series 4)
-- Yeeeees! As I watched season 2 first and then season 1 I knew this from the moment I heard that line. I remember screaming "ohh you will find" LOL And to really answer the question, I belived Arthur when he said that and I think he meant that. Cause when he "found" the person, he did much more than this for her.

16. What were your favourite moments from the episode?
-- Arthur and Gwen, those little hidden moments. I am sucker for them!

HumbleQueen commented…
#2. I agree about her Dad. What a sweet man. So little of Gwen's family, indeed, but then so little of Gwen's life. But then, I guess the point of the toon wouldn't allow I guess. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden pwsm88 said…
I guess this falls under #7? I believe Arthur's (subconscious?) awareness of Guinevere started in this episode. Surely he has seen his father sentence people to death before. Why did he defend Guinevere without the usual prompting from Morgana? Why did his father's decision to put her to death frustrate him to the point of lingering and pacing in the throne room as the scene was ending?
HumbleQueen commented…
That last vraag is a biggy for me. One of the precursors IMO. About to post some antwoorden now. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden HumbleQueen said…
Well, my weary self has some answers but I wish I could go into more depth but alas I'm tired. Anyway here goes:

2. This marks the first appearance of Gwen’s father, what did you think of him? Did you get the feeling that he has a close relationship with his daughter? Or did you feel we should have had more scenes of them together in this episode?

For me, their initial scene told me enough to let me know the closeness. More scenes weren’t necessary. The concern she had for her father told it all.

3. What did you think of Gaius and Merlin’s investigation of the cause of the plague? Did you think that they should have worked it out earlier?

Well they were really trying to get to the bottom. Examining the contents of the corpses’ stomachs was a very good idea. Of course the fact that it wasn’t an ordinary illness, but one conjured by sorcery made it complicated insofar as how they could proceed. Always the issue of Merlin’s secret comes to play.

4. How did you feel Uther handled the situation with the plague? Do you think that Arthur agreed with his father’s handling of the situation?

At first Uther handled it okay and Arthur was with him. Eventually, as usual, they came to be at odds on how to handle it and you could see the differences in what kind of hearts they had. Here we see Arthur’s concern for the welfare of his people, no matter their social status.

5. Discuss Gwen and Merlin’s relationship progress in this episode.

Beautiful closeness but still a tinge of awkwardness. To me, the way the two were portraying this, I see a mutual attraction. Both seem to have a crush IMO and you can see why Morgana felt he was in love with Gwen. You always hear about Gwen’s crush and usually folks don’t think of Merlin that way, but the way I’m seeing it in this episode and at least the next, he’s a little blushed with her. He admires Morgana, seems a bit swept away so to speak, but with Gwen he has this tender and sweet affection that could be interpreted as romantic. Look at his face when he’s with her guys.

6. Do you think Merlin was reckless in using magic to save Gwen’s father? Do you think he fully considered the consequences of his actions or was acting from his heart solely?

VERY very, very reckless. We forgive him because his only intent was to ease Gwen’s hurt and suffering, but it was a foolish move, hindsight tell us so, but he should have exercised some foresight as to what could happen. And leaving that poultice thingy under Tom’s pillow was the dumbest thing ever. Well, we forgive Merls because we know he meant well and in the final analysis he came through.

7. What do you think you of Arthur’s character progression in this episode? What hints did you see that makes you think that he knew Gwen was innocent? What were they? Do you think he came to this conclusion because of Morgana’s speech to Uther or due to his own observations?

Standing there with his hand to his mouth, you could tell. He was not at all comfortable with this thing. Now. There are those who think of this scene in the throne room when Uther sentenced her as another precursor to the romance. Some think he was way more uncomfortable than he should have been and did you see his reaction at the end of the scene when it became apparent that Uther was intent on executing her. Rather emotional for who she was in his life at the time. HINT, HINT. Sort of like her reactions to his fight with Valiant.

9. What did you think of Morgana’s devotion to Gwen? Was it genuine at this point? (seeing as we know how that friendship ends)

Very genuine and her love for Gwen was real. It wasn’t feigned. All the more drastic what happened to her with Gwen and Arthur. Her wickedness toward Camelot should have been tempered or conflicted because she cared way too much for these two individuals. That’s a writing issue. But that’s another story.

10. Arthur manages to convince the council and his father that Merlin is love sick; do you think that Arthur feels that Merlin does indeed have a crush on Gwen? Or was Arthur just coming up with an excuse to save his servant?

The way it played out, I think he was using it as an excuse. He saw him with the flower, but I don’t think he’d seen enough of them together. Morgana was being a woman, a romantic, so it was easy for her to take it there.

11. Morgana agrees to help Merlin and Gaius prove Gwen’s innocence and approaches Arthur; what did you feel about that exchange? Did you notice any differences or similarities between this scene and the Arwen scene in 2x07 when Gwen agrees to do the same thing?

There were similarities of course, such as the “Leave that to me” and Gwen’s “Leave Arthur to me” But in my opinion they approached Arthur differently. Morgana prodded him by speaking to his manliness, his ego. I feel Gwen reached out to his righteous nature, his honor. “Do the right thing.”

12. When Arthur says “Maybe it is because I haven’t found the right person to love”, do you believe him? Is this a hint to the fact that he ends up marrying Gwen? (seeing as this is what indeed does happen in series 4)

Not particularly Gwen as I saw it, but a hint that he would find the right person eventually. The sibling feel with him and Morgana was starting to kick in tho in this episode, particularly the scene where he said that.


16. What were your favourite moments from the episode?

Not necessarily so much a favorite moment, but the most interesting moment for me was when Gwen questioned Merlin about how he knew her father was better. She really seemed to be on to something with him, but the show never developed this unfortunately. That’s something that could have added a lot of depth to many aspects of all their relationships, if Gwen showed or had suspicions about Merlin all along. Suspicions about there being more to him or the like. Oh well.

ellarose88 commented…
#7: I agree. Looking back at watching the episode, I do think that Arthur was meer concerned than normal. but he doesn't know it. As to your response to vraag 11, I thought the same. Morgana appealed to his ego where as Gwen just told him point blank to do the right and honorable thing because she has seen his loyal side. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden Arina0122 said…
sunny
1. What do you think were Nimueh’s motives for sending a plaque to Camelot other than the most obvious? (without knowing what we learnt in her next appearance/s)

Without knowing what we learnt in her next appearance. I would say she wants to destroy Camelot. There is only want reason to destroy Camelot and that would be to destroy Uther. Near the end Gaius shows Uther the mark of Nimueh and Uther says will I ever be rid of her suggesting a past history. So revenge is the reason.

2. This marks the first appearance of Gwen’s father, what did you think of him? Did you get the feeling that he has a close relationship with his daughter? Or did you feel we should have had more scenes of them together in this episode?

Gwen and her father had a wonderful relationship. It was happy and content filled with love and respect for each other. They do not have much, but they have each other.

3. What did you think of Gaius and Merlin’s investigation of the cause of the plague? Did you think that they should have worked it out earlier?

Gaius and Merlin investigation was done well at first, but once they figure out it was the water; they should have went to the main water supply.

4. How did you feel Uther handled the situation with the plague? Do you think that Arthur agreed with his father’s handling of the situation?

Uther handled the situation ok. They need to find a cure as quickly as possible. The people would turn to whatever means to find a cure, even magic. Sectioning off the lower town was hard and most rulers of the time would most likely have done the same. I don’t agree with it and clearly Arthur did not agree with it. As for Gwen that was hash; they didn’t have evidence she started the plague.

5. Discuss Gwen and Merlin’s relationship progress in this episode.

Gwen and Merlin clearly care for each other. Merlin says he doesn’t love her or thing of her in that way, but there are deep feelings of concern. Gwen adores Merlin. I loved their interaction, so sweet.

6. Do you think Merlin was reckless in using magic to save Gwen’s father? Do you think he fully considered the consequences of his actions or was acting from his heart soley?

I think he acted a little foolishly. He let his heart rule what to do and how to do. Or maybe a little careless. Leaving behind the poultice was the error. It might have been hard to get it back, but maybe he could have visited the next day and got it somehow. There would have been suspicious, but no evidence. I do not believe he thought about the consequences at all and if he did think about the consequences Gwen being assured never entered his mind. He said; he thought it was simple just save Gwen’s father. Remember he hasn’t lived in Camelot long.

7. What do you think you of Arthur’s character progression in this episode? What hints did you see that makes you think that he knew Gwen was innocent? What were they? Do you think he came to this conclusion because of Morgana’s speech to Uther or due to his own observations?

Arthur showed concern for the all of the kingdom’s people. Unlike his father he did not want to section off the lower town even though it looked as if must of the cases was only affecting them. Arthur was concerned about Merlin and saved him from himself as Gaius said.

Now for the Arthur/Gwen hints. Morgana has nothing to do with Arthur’s thoughts about Gwen. From the moment Gwen’s father said she was in the room with him when got better; Arthur’s face showed alarm; you could see it on his face. When they searched her home and found the poultice; he kind of stands there like a deer in headlight frozen. In Morgana chambers he told Morgana he couldn’t turn a blind eye. When Uther says well done, Arthur seem less the pleased with the situation. When Uther sentenced Gwen to death; Arthur faces shows apprehension. While Morgana is confronting Uther you can see the confliction in Arthur’s face. Arthur says yes, maybe she used magic to save her father, but that did not mean she created the plague. Also, Arthur said that he did not believe there was evil in this girl’s heart; which means he noticed her and her actions. Arthur is way too conflicted and emotional about the hold thing. Arthur’s facial expressions and body language displayed fretfulness and angst.


8. Did you think that Gaius should have spoken up to Uther about Gwen, proclaiming her innocence or was he right in finding proof of her innocence through evidence first?

It would have been nice if Gaius defends Gwen, but he knows Uther well and knows it would do no good.

9. What did you think of Morgana’s devotion to Gwen? Was it genuine at this point? (seeing as we know how that friendship ends)

At this point Morgana truly cared about Gwen. Gwen must likely goes beyond what a servant would do. Like picking flowers for her, that was not part of her job. Gwen showed concern for Morgana more than a servant girl. I believe at this point the concern was mutual. Morgana feelings are genuine.

10. Arthur manages to convince the council and his father that Merlin is love sick; do you think that Arthur feels that Merlin does indeed have a crush on Gwen? Or was Arthur just coming up with an excuse to save his servant?

Here I think Arthur grasped at something he could use. He knew Merlin and Gwen interacted and had some type of relationship because of the said flower and used it to explain Merlin’s action.

11. Morgana agrees to help Merlin and Gaius prove Gwen’s innocence and approaches Arthur; what did you feel about that exchange? Did you notice any differences or similarities between this scene and the Arwen scene in 2x07 when Gwen agrees to do the same thing?

Morgana was goading Arthur into action, playing at his ego and pride to act. Morgana was manipulating Arthur to help. Later Gwen appeals to Arthur to do the right thing, directly asking him to stop Gaius execution. Reminding him what the consequences are of inaction. Telling him she knew her placed, but reminded him what his status and position are and the responsibility of them.

12. When Arthur says “Maybe it is because I haven’t found the right person to love”, do you believe him? Is this a hint to the fact that he ends up marrying Gwen? (seeing as this is what indeed does happen in series 4)

I think this is one of those irony movements. Here he cleanly does not think of Morgana in that way, but I don’t believe Gwen has entered his mind. In his mind he is stating a fact, he doesn’t love anyone that way, but when he finds that right person he would do the same.

13. Discuss any plot holes you discovered in this episode.

They proved Gwen did not use magic to cause the plague, but where was the proof that she did not use magic to cure her father. Uther hates magic good or bad; he still would have executed her. Or are we saying Uther is a fair and just judge when it comes to magic. Are Morgana and Arthur deaf ; they couldn’t hear Merlin chanting a spell.

14. How did you find the pacing of the episode when compared to the last two episodes?

The pacing was nice and flowed well as far as I am concerned. It kept moving forward.

15. What are your thoughts on the Great Dragon’s talk with Merlin on how he can stop the plague?

The dragon and his riddles were funny. Helping but not helping. Making Merlin work out the answer. I liked the lightness and playfulness from the dragon.

16. What were your favourite moments from the episode?

There were a few. It a sad moment but I think Angel played it very well and it bought tears to my eyes when Gwen ask Merlin to remember her. My heart broke. Also, when Arthur had her and arrested the scene when they are walking down the corridor and she is begging. I just loved Arthur’s walk, it was just sexy. Bad timing, but still I think it was sexy. Ok, on happy notes, I loved Gwen and Merlin when he asked about her father after he was healed. I would say mutual attraction and sweetness. Arthur’s face when Gaius said he could read his book and his face when Merlin said he was the sorcerer.

ellarose88 commented…
#7 I agree, Arthur was concerned as soon as Tom mentioned Gwen's name so really I do think that it wasn't really what Morgana zei (though it may proved that Gwen is a good/kind person) and meer of what he has seen of Gwen and the way she has been there for Morgana. een jaar geleden
HumbleQueen commented…
#15 I agree. The dragon always makes me laugh. And when he laughs, I laugh. Love his riddles and how he gets under Merlin's skin all the time. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
smile
2. This marks the first appearance of Gwen’s father, what did you think of him? Did you get the feeling that he has a close relationship with his daughter? Or did you feel we should have had more scenes of them together in this episode?
Yup. Right from the start the closeness was there for all to see

3. What did you think of Gaius and Merlin’s investigation of the cause of the plague? Did you think that they should have worked it out earlier?
Gaius's reliance on science is noteworthy but it is also one of the reason why Merlin always relies on magic to get easier and faster solution. And to answer, yes. Knowing the source i sthe water supply they should have been there immediately.

4. How did you feel Uther handled the situation with the plague? Do you think that Arthur agreed with his father’s handling of the situation?
Uther was scared. When Gaius mentions about the involvement of sorcery, his mind is actually worked out the solution. Witchcraft. He wasn't interested in alternatives only proofs that magic is involved. Which goes back to my answer for q1 above. He must have caused someone colateral damage and the reason for his hatred on magic (note that we dont know what went on between him and nimueh). So whenever camelot is plagued by disease or etc, he believes it's the work of magic. IMO i think Uther never handled any situation like a wise king. He is always hasty, jumping into conclusion based on his own experience and refuses to listen to anyone but him.

Arthur's view can be seen from this one line:
"She's right, Father. You hear the word magic, you no longer listen."

For me that sums up how Arthur's reaction to the way his father handles the plague.



5. Discuss Gwen and Merlin’s relationship progress in this episode.
They are both sweet and naive. Cute too ... I really fell in love with their friendship. Yes, they were blushing in each other's presence but if you see beyond that, you can note the genuinity of their friendship. And that's bond that takes them both till the end. I love the moment in the cell. When Merlin is struggling to confide the truth and she telling him to remember me. I have no idea why but it brings me back to the final episode where they both lost a friend in Arthur and only had each other to turn to. I am so sad that they never had a moment together to rekindle this scene. It would have been the epitome of their friendship and summed up what they went through together all throughout the series. Never once Gwen judged Merlin and if they were given a scene after she learns of his secret, she can actually tell Merlin " I always knew you were special Merlin. Thanks you for all you've done for and for Arthur".
And that .... would have made up for the crappy ending we had to endure.
For me ... Gwen and Merlin's friendship in season 1 and 2 were the best.


That is for now. Will continue tomorrow.


ellarose88 commented…
I agree with your thoughts on Uther based on what we know at this stage. Sure, he was right to section off the lower town (though it was a tough decision), but his hatred towards magic meant that whenever magic may be involved the only solution is door killing the people that may be involved rather than seeking evidence and a way of stopping the plague. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden HumbleQueen said…
Thought I'd throw in a few Master List Items as I neglected to last time:

b. Lives saved
Gwen's Dad

c. R.I.P. list.
Long list, but nobody we know I think

d. Who spent time in the dungeon?
Awwww, our Gwennie

j. Guest star special characters.
Michelle Ryan as Nimueh

ellarose88 commented…
Thanks for doing that. I totally forgot! I need to respond to people's comments. People brought up great points that I think are insightful. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
smile
I'm at work so I'll answer those that are easy. I'll skip #7 first.

6. Do you think Merlin was reckless in using magic to save Gwen’s father? Do you think he fully considered the consequences of his actions or was acting from his heart soley?
I understand some think he was reckless and hasty in his decision but i have to add a point or two as to why he did it. And this has nothing to do with the fact i love colin,LOL! Allright, I agree he was hasty and jumpy in his decision but why did he do it? Friendship aside, he values the importance of a family. Merlin loves his mother and has her alone in his life. It was the same as Gwen. And you can notice how disturbed he was when Gwen was pleading with Gaius. Which led to his hasty decision. And when he is watching Gwen's father recover from the window, the smile he displays as Tom and Gwen hug each other is not out of his triumph but of relieve knowing he saved his friend's father. In my opinion, he did it without thinking of the consequences because Merlin in season 1 is one who follows his heart than his head. For him, magic should be used if you are gifted with it. But these are type of errors that prompts him to reconsider his actions as the season progresses. So to answer the question, yes he used his heart over his head but why? Family. He values it and knows the pain one will go through by losing one.

8. Did you think that Gaius should have spoken up to Uther about Gwen, proclaiming her innocence or was he right in finding proof of her innocence through evidence first?
Gaius always relied in proof because he knows Uther will not listen if there are no proof. So he will find the evidence first though I wished he had approched the water supply first.

9. What did you think of Morgana’s devotion to Gwen? Was it genuine at this point?
Genuine friendship. Morgana in S1 is still young and fresh. She isn't exposed to the secrets of her past and therefore her affections towards others apart from Uther is of kindness. So when she is defending Gwen, she does it wholeheartedly.

10. Arthur manages to convince the council and his father that Merlin is love sick; do you think that Arthur feels that Merlin does indeed have a crush on Gwen? Or was Arthur just coming up with an excuse to save his servant?
He simply came up with the idea. You can notice that by the way he actually thinks quickly and using the evidence he saw in Merlin and the flowers, he used it to save Merlin. I don't believe he thinks Merlin has a crush on Gwen. Another evidence is when Morgana tells him poor merlin , he responds with a smile and agrees. There is no evidence that he believes Merlin is torn with Gwen in the cell. As friend maybe but romantically nope.

11. Morgana agrees to help Merlin and Gaius prove Gwen’s innocence and approaches Arthur; what did you feel about that exchange? Did you notice any differences or similarities between this scene and the Arwen scene in 2x07 when Gwen agrees to do the same thing?
Difference. In this episode, Morgana uses her influence as someone who has grown up with Arthur to persuade him to help her. Besides, she strokes his ego before finally getting him to comply whereas Gwen uses her loyalthy and faithfulness in Arthur to reach out to his responsibilty. Morgana teases him whereas Gwen reminds him of his duty. Morgana was confident Arthur will help her, perhaps because of their close upbringing yet Gwen was confident Arthur will consider because of his goodness. Yes, she has seen his good and knows he is not Uther. Which is why she was confident. I personally like her approach than morgana's.
IMO, I think Arthur readily agrees to help Morgana not because of her tease; but perhaps because of Gwen. We know he wasn't happy with his father's decision and without proof he was unable to help her. But when he knows Morgana is up to something and that could help Gwen, he agrees immediately. There was no hesitation ...


That's for now ... will continue when i get home ... :)
HumbleQueen commented…
Shu, I like your answer to No. 6. Very much. And that is a fantastic point u made for No. 11. He did agree VERY readily to I think that's a plus we can put on the Arwen precursor side!! Going to make a note on the master lijst in fact. een jaar geleden
HumbleQueen commented…
"so" I think..... een jaar geleden
sportyshuie commented…
thanks nanna .. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden HumbleQueen said…
Masterlist:

A. Anything that has to do with Arwen.
Arthur arrests Gwen for sorcery
Arthur is uncomfortable in the throne room when his father sentences her.
Arthur seems upset at the end of the scene where she's sentenced.
Arthur is quick to do something to help Gwen when asked by Morgana.
last edited een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden HumbleQueen said…
smile
Also want to say I like this new format for forums but I wish there was some way they could let a commenter know when someone responds to them directly, now that we can respond to people directly. But otherwise, it's nice.
ellarose88 commented…
Agreed Nanna! I have to keep checking to see if people have replied so I don't miss anything een jaar geleden
sportyshuie commented…
same ... and i'm having hard time attaching pics ... een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
smile
Ahhh ... home at last.

7. What do you think you of Arthur’s character progression in this episode? What hints did you see that makes you think that he knew Gwen was innocent? What were they? Do you think he came to this conclusion because of Morgana’s speech to Uther or due to his own observations?
He never approved the way his father handled the situation, right from the way Uther jumps into conclusion on sorcery, searching the village for sorcerer, deciding the rid the plague by burning Gwen etc. He was beginning to show some maturity. No longer the prat, he was progresing to be the king he needs to be. His line ,
"I know. Witchcraft is an evil, father. So is injustice. Yes, I am yet to be King, and I don't know what kind of king I will be, but I do have a sense of the kind of Camelot I would wish to live in. It would be where the punishment fits the crime.
This shows Arthur has his view on the type of king he wants to be. His only obstacle is his father himself.

As for the hints, It was there right from the beginning. When he stood frozen in Gwen home, when he had to drag her out from Morgana's chamber, when his father congratulations was greeted with an icy stare, the way he stood with his fingers to his mouth, his defending for Gwen, the frustration wnen his father didnt want to give Gwen a second chance and later when he jumped the wagon to help Morgana which i believed he did for gwen rather than morgana.

I sincererly believe he knew Gwen was innocent because he knows her. Unlike Merlin, she had been there with Morgana and i believe their paths must have crossed. So knowing that she couldnt have done it, he defended her.



12. When Arthur says “Maybe it is because I haven’t found the right person to love”, do you believe him? Is this a hint to the fact that he ends up marrying Gwen? (seeing as this is what indeed does happen in series 4)
I don't think he actually meant anyone at all. He was merely answering Morgana's question. He also does not believe Merlin has crush on Gwen.


13. Discuss any plot holes you discovered in this episode.
1. Merlin chanting and both Arthur and morgana doesnt hear it.
2. Gaius not suspecting how Merlin can find out about the elements when he could have done it earlier.
3. Why didnt Uther ask Gaius to investigate the poultice?


14. How did you find the pacing of the episode when compared to the last two episodes?
All right. Since it involved our OTP, i didn't care much even if it was slower. LOL!

15. What are your thoughts on the Great Dragon’s talk with Merlin on how he can stop the plague?
He was teaching Merlin actually. There are no easy answers when Kilgarah is involved and Merlin learned this along the way. But if the dragon gave a straight answer, Merlin wouldn't be learning so riddles were good. It thought us a thing or two as well.

16. What were your favourite moments from the episode?
1. Merlin getting flowers from Gwen
2. Gwen and ger father moments
3. Merlin saving Tom's life. The moment he stands outside and watches Tom and Gwen hug, that smile ... priceless.
4. Merlin asking gwen about her father.
5. Arthur's walk as the guards drag Gwen out. Sexy!
6. Arthur defending Gwen
7. Arthur saving Merlin's life from Uther.
8. Morgana teasing Merlin about Gwen.


MISAforever commented…
No.5 That's my girl! :)))))) een jaar geleden
sportyshuie commented…
Joppa, u must;ve watched that walk many time ... slow mo, fast vooruit, voorwaarts ... every way u know it girl!! LOL een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden arthurlover7 said…
I only just saw this blog. . .so what episode are you guys on now?? I would like to join in. Is there a specific time where you watch the show and comment?? So I know when to get on when you guys are??
HumbleQueen commented…
Hi ArthurLover! We love him too!!! We post the episodes on Saturdays but u can watch and commentaar on any particular one any time u want. We're doing 1x03 this week and will post the vragen for 1x04 on Saturday the 2nd. We'll likely be talking about that one starting then and all volgende week. We suggest Hulu for free watching and there's another link above. Look under VII in the main post at the top, boven of this thread. Glad to have u kom bij us! een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
kiss
Yay ... another new member. the more the merrier!! This is fun ArthurLover and you'll not be disapointed at all!
arthurlover7 commented…
Thank you. I will be there tomorrow watching it. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
cool
Nanna, Mille ... i just thought of this. Would you both like to have this on the master list or perhaps in the questions ...
Favourite comedic lines. Coz' this episode had quite a few which had me in fits. And i bet the other episodes will have too.

1.
MERLIN
Wait, why couldn't he just tell you himself?

GAIUS
Because that's the way it is. You're a servant.

MERLIN
Wha...if he knew who I was, what I've done...

GAIUS
You'd be a dead servant. Right, get this covered up.

MERLIN
Hey, I'm not your servant.

GAIUS
No, you're my dogsbody. Come on, hurry up.


2.
GAIUS
Whats different about this victim?

MERLIN
Er...she's a woman.

GAIUS
Sometimes I do wonder whether you're a magical talents were given to the right person. Anything else?



3.
MERLIN
Well, whatever it is, one thing's for sure: Arthur isn't going to find it. He thinks he is so sharp! But even when I told him I was a wizard, he still couldn't see it.

GAIUS
Sometimes they're pretty hard to spot.

MERLIN
Well, maybe I should go around wearing a pointy hat.






arthurlover7 commented…
Haha those are funny. een jaar geleden
ellarose88 commented…
Hahahaha those lines are funny! We could have it in the master-list of questions. I'm not fussed. Though, maybe in the master-list so that we don't have too many questions. een jaar geleden
HumbleQueen commented…
LOL, that exchange did make me laugh, Shu. I'm sure A & M will have many. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden HumbleQueen said…
Ok. So I'm up next. Hope to have my post by midday EST tomorrow. Don't hold me to that. Things get crazy in my life and you never know when. I just finished watching and working on questions. See ya tomorrow.
arthurlover7 commented…
Ok Im confused. What do u mean door "I'm up next"?? And yeah never mind about adding another artical. What is the master lijst for?? how do I see that?? And u can call me Cassidy. een jaar geleden
HumbleQueen commented…
So sorry I didn't see your vraag until now, arthurlover! But I see that Shu (Sportyshiue) answered it very well. My suggestion is to go back and read the first three episode forums and you'll get a better picture of what we're doing. Episode 4 just went up and folks will be watching that one and discussing it on that forum. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden sportyshuie said…
smile
Cassidy. Since you are new, maybe allow me to refresh you up. There are so far 3 moderators for the Merlin rewatch. I think if you look up at the top of this forum, you can see the names. Since there are only 3, we take turn foruminising the rewatch. ( i don't even know if the word exist). So far HQ, myself and Ellarose have done up to episode 3. So teh circle will go round again to HQ to do episode 4 and me and ella. Following? So each week, we will have master list to keep the viewers glued to the forum and ease them with answers. The questions that follows is up to the moderators. You can choose to answer anything you want. There is no pressure. The main goal is for you to have fun rewatching and discuss your thoughts with us. It can be of anything except bashing is strictly not allowed. You can go through the previous two forums and see how the respons was. And if you want to become our moderator, be our guest! WE WOULD LOVE IT!!! SO ... incase you still don't have a clue what i'm telling you, do pm any three of us. I'm going to add you to ease you process. :)
arthurlover7 commented…
Yes I follow. Just 1 clarification, do u talk and ask vragen about the episode u see this week? of do u ask vragen about the episode u are going to watch volgende week and discuss the episode u watch this week?? Hopefully I make sense. een jaar geleden
sportyshuie commented…
We discuss and talk about the episodes we watch this week. For ex. This week it's episode 4. So we discuss the episode and answer the vragen based on the episode. :) een jaar geleden
HumbleQueen commented…
Thanks, Shu, for answering so thoroughly. ArthurLover hope you'll look back at what we have been doing and read the post at top. Just jump in and kom bij the discussion for whatever episode it is. een jaar geleden
HumbleQueen commented…
Ooops. Meant to call u Cassidy. Oh, and As Shu said, no pressure. Talk about anything in the particular episode u want to. Answer any vragen the moderator puts. Up top, boven is the master lijst of things we look for in ALL the episodes. If u want to lijst any of those do so. Whatever u want. But as Shu said, have fun. Just no bashing. Glad to have you! een jaar geleden