Debate Atheism vs. Christianity

_crmdd posted on Feb 03, 2012 at 02:26PM
Hey, im an atheist

so there are some things i dont understand about christians and i wanted to have a sort of "debate" over christianity vs atheism, and/or how the world was created


SO, ill start with this:

You say that God created the universe, right? So my question is; where did God come from?
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een jaar geleden Sappp said…
You know, there is an 'ask a Christian' forum on the atheist spot or you could just ask someone on the Christianity spot.

I don't think this question is really new, so I wonder what you plan to accomplish with it.
een jaar geleden weresmyanime said…
meh
their are holes in both the sceince makes sense to me but i dont belive in a god because theirs no proof i whould half to see him am not going to blindly follow something either for now just dont care about it until the church or sectist have more info about it pondering this leads to one hell of a head ach think of what came first the chicken or the egg i think the chicken because i belive in evlotion
een jaar geleden Cinders said…
LOL! Sappp, I take the blame for this - I referred this user from the Christianity spot to the debate spot. Although, now that you mention it, the Ask a Christian forum would have probably been a better referral.

The reason I thought it was better here is because of how the question is phrased as a debate concept. Also, I didn't want to cause any misunderstandings at the Christianity spot, even though the Christians there are very patient.
een jaar geleden pandawinx said…
I don't really thnik "Athiesm vs christianity", is a good title, as i see no reason for (Or any way how) to determine which is better. Religion is a subjective thing. Whatever people believe, they can believe. I'd say religious debate isn't trying to determine which religion/members are BETTER, rather than which beliefs are more accurate. And accurate doesn't always equate to better.

The question you raised is a common one, but still a very, very good one.
I suppose a Christian might argue that god isn't nessicarily a person, so he wasn't produced in the same way we are. So that mean he/she doesn't have a mother, or a father- it's not a human being.
Some may even say, that god is simply the beginning. And when there's a beginning to something, no-one questions who made the beginning. The beginning is just the beginning. It's a thing you have to have trust and faith in to understand.

However, there are a few people who DO believe god is actually a tangible being rather than a force, and I'm not sure how they'll react to your question. Perhaps it worth doing a bit of research, or asking a more "traditional" (Not the right word, but couldn't think of a better one) christian.

Your question is very deep and i agree with you- there is a lot of cracks in the therory of Genesis.
But there's a problem with the big bang therory to, which is very similar to your arguement- "If the big bang created everything, what made the big bang happened?"
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een jaar geleden weresmyanime said…
hmmm
pandawinx is what i was trying to say but is better at expalining it then me
een jaar geleden amanda-sefton said…
laugh
God exists outside of time. It's complicated, but time and space don't mean anything to Him
een jaar geleden pandawinx said…
"I don't think this question is really new, so I wonder what you plan to accomplish with it."
Very few questions are.
"LOL! Sappp, I take the blame for this"
Blame for what? He was just asking a question.
een jaar geleden blackpanther666 said…
The title for this certainly is not the best suited for such a question. I'm neither atheist, nor Christian - if it is proved to me, visually, then I'll believe in a God. The thing is, the debatee actually makes a good point, how does God exist, if he created everything? amanda-sefton's answer is simply pointless, because I cannot comprehend how someone/some-being could exist outside of space/time - then life and the universe would really have no meaning whatsoever.
een jaar geleden whiteflame55 said…
The point of the Christian (and Jewish, and Muslim) interpretation of God is that God simply always existed. Omnipotent and omniscient, God simply predates anything we know and are capable of seeing or understanding. As a Jew, I'm not quite certain I buy this line of logic (it's basically a tautological statement, "it is because it is"), but belief in God never really required a substantial amount of logic. Religion is a source of spiritual and emotional support for most people, so it need not follow a line of logic.
een jaar geleden blackpanther666 said…
Meh, I don't understand how that could be possible. It certainly goes over my head, Whiteflame. Either way, I want proof of such a thing, before I ever decide to believe in it.
een jaar geleden Tsuchimi246 said…
I have thought of this same question many of times but I don't think where he came from really matters. I have a question for Atheists. I do not judge people for their religions and I will not treat you like Christians are better than Atheist because they are not. But I have always wanted to ask many people, how does the scientific theory make sense more than God does? If you think about it, there are so many holes in the Darwin theory. How can an atom explosion create all of the life on Earth? I asked my friend (Who is Atheist) how it all works in her eyes and she said she didn't know all the details. She said it all came from Dinosaurs but, where did the Dinosaurs come from? As I said, I don't look down on people who are different religions but I wish I could ask everyone I met about this and see how they respond.
een jaar geleden ThePrincesTale said…
First, science and god aren't mutually exclusive- you can hold both true, at the same time. To put that aside though, and use your parameters: I think science makes much more sense than believing in some figure in the sky. It is based on observations. Hypothesis. Thousands of results go towards creating a scientific theory.
Now, the second bit always really annoyed me. You don't have a PhD in physics- you're probably not going to understand all the intricacies of the Big Bang in your lifetime. You do not have more authority in that field then physicists that have devoted their life to the study of it. It's like the whole climate change debate- there's no debate. People are arrogant to assume that they know more than climate experts. You can hold it as untrue, okay, but don't go saying "there's no evidence for it, there are holes, I don't get it".
That's an incredibly simplistic view of evolution you have there with dinosaurs, I'd recommend you research it some more so as to gain a better understanding of it.
een jaar geleden Sappp said…
'But I have always wanted to ask many people, how does the scientific theory make sense more than God does'

Because even if I do not understand everything right now, if I would commit myself to it, study science, it would. It is something that everyone can see. That is science: observing things, thinking about them, thinking of an hypothesis and testing that. It is here, around us and the fact that people deny it does not make it less there: for example everyone can see that things fall. The theory of gravity just explained how that happens.

Religion does not do that. Religion says how things are and does not expect you to think about it. You cannot observe religion. You cannot test it. You have to blindly follow what it is a book or what someone else tells you. Religion says you have to be satisfied with not knowing, not understanding.
And I want to understand everything.

Also, science does not shame or scare me into following it. Christianity does.
een jaar geleden tiagih said…
As a Christian, I guess an answer would be God just "is". Its really faith based, the wind has no beginning or end, neither does space, so why would God if he made all of this, have one either. There is no way for me to prove God on a scientific level or spiritual level its something that doesn't need logic for most of us. I don't know how this is an Atheistic vs Christian topic unless your trying to understand Genesis. But I would be happy to answer any questions about Christianity if you have some.
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een jaar geleden Rainshadow999 said…
If God didn't create the Universe because he never existed, who did?
My theory is the Universe never existed, and this is a image of our conscience.
That also explains why I think psychologists and philosophers are the most important people in the world. We so don't exist and I must say, "YOU ARE NOT READING THIS."
een jaar geleden blackpanther666 said…
@Rainshadow999. Why does 'someone' have to have created the Universe? If this is all just an illusion of the mind, created by the conscious mind, then we could simply say we are in the Matrix and be done with it. But, that does not fit with how the conscious mind is supposed to work. The best theory I have read explains that there are three important parts of this...

1. Mind

2. Consciousness

3. Thought

These are the three principles, originated by Sydney Banks. These three, together, make up the whole of conscious thought in the brain. However, there are a further three, which I read about in a book on self-hypnotism yesterday, which explain that suggestion, perception and one other are also important factors. There are also four other theories that try to explain how consciousness arose.

All I can say is that the natural world, and the Universe, are just as likely as any other theory. God, natural creation and all others are all unknown as to whether they are the cause of life, or not... However, humans do understand evolution to have a certain bearing on the creation of life... But, it is hard for me to say whether it is true, or not, as there are many discrepancies with Darwin's idea of evolution. As far as I know, most evolutionists follow micro and macro evolution, rather than Darwinism itself.
Rainshadow999 commented…
:) I don't really believe anything. I'm just open for all possibilities, evolution is possible, God is possible, Satan is possible, non-existing is possible...my point is we won't ever know. I respect everyone's opinions. een jaar geleden
coriann commented…
i think we will know Rainshadow999 een jaar geleden
coriann commented…
saying we won't know just basically means give up and stop looking, the whole reason scientists keep finding new facts is because they stood up and zei let's try to figure it out een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden anonymous-11 said…
Whether or not you believe in God, there is one important and major event that many people seem to be ignoring (which is actually serve as the only evidence needed to prove that God exists and answers prayers). During the time of Joshua, the Bible states that Joshua asked God to stop the sun from setting.. and God did! And to think of such an amazing event would lead to the thought, "What caused the sun not to set?". The answer is actually very obvious and can set many people in to shock once realized.. The Earth would definitely have to stop spinning! And modern scientists are actually proving that there is a discrepancy in the pattern of solar display (There is one night which is lacking, or one day was prolonged)that can actually be traced to the time when Joshua had asked God to make the sun not to set. There is absolutely NO force that would be powerful enough to stop the ENTIRE Earth from moving except God. Furthermore, everything was kept intact and there was no gravitational disturbance, natural disaster or planetary disposition- all three of which would have occurred if the Earth was suddenly stopped from rotating on its axis. Another major provision of evidence towards God's existence and answer to even the most extreme prayers. There is no other plausible explanation for this.
een jaar geleden anonymous-11 said…
Another thing that many Christians and Atheists alike ignore.. God and the Big Bang theory could actually co-exist. There is nothing in the Bible or even the fundamental "rules" of Christianity that say that the Big Bang was impossible. And there is absolutely no disagreement of God's existence in the Big Bang theory. :D
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
"During the time of Joshua, the Bible states that Joshua asked God to stop the sun from setting.. and God did! And to think of such an amazing event would lead to the thought, "What caused the sun not to set?". The answer is actually very obvious and can set many people in to shock once realized.. The Earth would definitely have to stop spinning! And modern scientists are actually proving that there is a discrepancy in the pattern of solar display (There is one night which is lacking, or one day was prolonged)that can actually be traced to the time when Joshua had asked God to make the sun not to set."
- Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is somewhat of an urban legend. The story goes that a NASA scientist claimed that NASA computers had discovered this "missing day" but there was never any support for that claim from any other source from NASA. The story is widely considered to a myth.
There have been actual scientific works which have suggested that there may have been a day with longer daylight hours than normal around the time that the bible claims Joshua made his request. This isn't a discrepancy, but rather simply looking into patterns and cycles.

"Furthermore, everything was kept intact and there was no gravitational disturbance, natural disaster or planetary disposition- all three of which would have occurred if the Earth was suddenly stopped from rotating on its axis."
- This is simply explained by the scenario I described. A natural phenomenon. These kinds of longer days happen in the world today, and, of course, the planet survives and carries on as normal. Things carrying on as normal is hardly an argument for the existence of any gods.

"Another major provision of evidence towards God's existence and answer to even the most extreme prayers."
- So... how does this god pick which 'extreme' prayers to answer? He'll pointlessly stop the sun because some guy in the olden days asked him to, but he won't help the sick or the disenfranchised? Are their any 'extreme' prayers, outside of the bible, that you can claim any god has answered?
een jaar geleden Syndicalist said…
You're comparing an Abrahamic Religion to a belief... It just does not work, it is as if you compare Christianity to Communism. Make your brain work.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
^ Who are you talking to?
een jaar geleden Shazza15 said…
That is a good question. I am a christian and all i can say is that God has been around before time even began. It is a very big thing to try and get your head around. It is almost impossible to believe! That is why why we (christians) live be faith and not by sight. This may or may not help but i hope i might have answered your question (sort of)
een jaar geleden Jeremane said…
God is real and true. He created the universe. Your question is beyond what humanity can achieve thinking and imagining. But we Christians know that what we know according to the Scripture is enough to claim our salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He might have been created by someone else or something else or maybe he wasn't created because HE is GOD. But whatever anyone say we stay true to only what we have and know which is the Bible. We have enough evidences to shout to the world that he exists. Thank you. May you find the right path. GOD BLESS!
een jaar geleden tutuy256 said…
You're asking as where does God came from???? Well the answer is simple. He didn't came from anything! Why? because why would we Theist call Him a God if He is just a creation also! He is the supreme Creator not the Supreme creation! Now this is my question where did the universe came from! if you would ask me from the bigbang? then my question is where did the bigbang came from! OUT OF NOTHING???? or from the vaccum??? if you would answer me again that it is from the vaccum then you are misleading yourself because vaccum produce virtual particle not a concrete things!
een jaar geleden soren1 said…
Hi, I'm a British philosophy Student, by no means am I a christian, although i am a deist. I'm intrigued by faith in God and i thought it might be interesting to ask a few questions see what kind of answers i can provoke, again i'm not preaching views merely trying to get interesting responses.
I've seen a couple of people on this debate say things like-
"I won't believe in a God until I see him or experience him"
What you are basically saying is that you will not believe in God until you perceive him, therefore you are relying on perception for truth. However it is often the case that our perception is mistaken, (example:mirages/hallucinations) my question to you would be if our perception can be flawed, surely it is not then worth relying on for truth, especially about something as important as faith?, and furthermore one cannot deny the existence of a God by saying that they haven't 'seen' him as even when we do see something, we can never be certain that our perception isn't again flawed. The same argument applies to science and empiricism.
I know there are some flaws in this way of thinking but any contributions to this idea would be interesting.
een jaar geleden Chaann94 said…
I was raised a Catholic though I'm not religious at all (I believe in evolution, big bang etc.).

Still, I think asking someone where God came from is like asking someone what an undiscovered colour looks like.
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
God did not come from anywhere. He always has been, and always will be. That's part of what makes him God, he isn't restricted by time, or anything really. What else don't you understand?
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
^ I don't understand how you know that.
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
I think it's somewhere in the Bible... But if it isn't, then I don't know either.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
Oh, was your comment sarcastic?
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
No... Am I not getting something?
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
So you believe what you said in your comment? But you don't know how or why?
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
I guess if it isn't in the Bible, I know because of the Holy Spirit.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
You don't think you should know exactly how you came to know such a strong claim? How did the 'Holy Spirit' communicate that knowledge to you?
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
Because God has granted me the capability to bear within me the Holy Spirit, that I may know my sin, be redeemed of it, and thank God for this gift. With the new spiritual birth that this brings comes also new knowledge, that which we call faith. Through this knowledge, I know God better every day, and come ever closer to the kingdom of heaven, all the while making an effort to bring as many with me as I can.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
But you originally said you didn't know how you knew all that... How did god grant you this knowledge? And how could you have forgotten that he had?
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
God granted me the knowledge by allowing me the Holy Spirit. I forgot because I've become so used to his presence within me that it seems a natural part of life, as it should be for any true Christian.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
I would have assumed that such a momentous event would have been etched in the memory.
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
Event? He's always been a part of me.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
So he granted you this knowledge from birth, which you forgot about...?
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
Do you remember your birth?
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
No. And that is exactly my point.
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
So I forgot. It doesn't mean it isn't true.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
Doesn't make it true either.
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
I can understand that some people don't believe, and I can, to some extent, understand why. Science does support the idea of Christianity in several ways, but science can't prove anything. And for those without the Holy Spirit, that and the Bible is all there is supporting our theory. But there is no way anyone will ever convince me that the presence I feel inside, who helps me to gain knowledge, wisdom, and everlasting life, doesn't exist. Atheists do not have this gift, and cannot know what I know. But I FEEL Him. I KNOW Him. To those without God's gift, Christianity most likely seems absurd. From a point of view like yours, you're right, it doesn't make it true. But I know without a shadow of a doubt that God is a real being, because I can't deny what I know to be true. For you, saying God doesn't exist is like saying aliens don't exist. You have no absolute way to undeniably prove either side, so it isn't a big deal. For me, saying God isn't real is like if you said you didn't actually have a brain. From your point of view, you're right. From mine, you couldn't be more wrong.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
So we can accept then that your "knowledge" of god is yours, not universal...?

Also, I believe in aliens.
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
It is universal, for all those not of this world.
blackpanther666 commented…
As Misanthrope said, this is a contradiction. Firstly, it cannot be universal if it is only accepted door religious people. Secondly, there's nothing to say that the rest of the Universe is affected door God, whatsoever. Personally, I see 'God' as being something that is not extra-terrestrial, but a divine being that is of the world, yet does not reside within. Besides, u admitted that some people believe in God and some don't. As that is, it restricts the presence of God only to this world, of what we know. Being no proof of a God, we cannot say that God exists outside of it, even with beliefs. I believe in a deity, but I don't believe that deity resides anywhere universally. een jaar geleden
LGYCE commented…
God is of the world, but not in it? That is pretty much the exact opposite of what the Bible says. een jaar geleden
LGYCE commented…
I thought u zei u believe the dictionary definition correct, and (other than the pronunciation) that's what I gave you. The "particular group" part is a part of it's definition, so it actually can be selective. een jaar geleden
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
So... you are contradicting your previous comment...?
een jaar geleden LGYCE said…
Quite the opposite.
een jaar geleden misanthrope86 said…
So you are claiming that your knowledge is universal truth? Despite the fact that you are very confused as to how you came to know this "truth"?