I don't necessarily think BL are insulted. Yes, they're forgotten about, and overshadowed by BJu now. But BL are never even mentioned, so I don't see how it can be considered as insulting them. Certain comments may be considered as re-writing BL history... but I don't think any direct comments, or jabs about BL have ever been made.

And while BL fans (understandabley so) may not appreciate the lack of BL support/acknowledgement... forgetting about LP is much worse, IMO. Not only are they 2 of the main characters, but they are FAMILY to Nathan & Haley, and best friends with Haley & Brooke. Mark thinks he's doing the show and audience a service, by leaving LP in the past, but he's really just making himself look like an idiot, with the unrealistic-ness of it all.

Bottom line is that BL truly are a figure of the past. As hard as it may be for some people to hear, or accept... it's the truth. Unlike LP, who are still together, one of the show's most vital endgames, and still also have an unbreakable connection with the core 5. It's not just about LP as a couple. It's about LP as individual characters, not getting the acknowledgement that they deserve, and spent 6 seasons earning.

Forgetting about a couple of the past, from the high school years is one thing. That's pretty realistic honestly, and expected. But forgetting about 2 of the show's most important characters, who are now FAMILY to some of the remaining cast is just absurd.

BL were insulted as a couple in numerous direct and indirect ways while they were both on the show. LP haven't been insulted as a couple at all, but rather the characters themselves have been let downs with the lack of mentions, which is only because they aren't on the show. That's not a choice they made, but was made for them, whereas with BL there's not really any reason things had to be the way they were. Both scenarios have certain sting factors or ways they could have been handled better according to the fans, but insulting BL just because they could/ to prop other couples far outweights just lack of activity with LP because they aren't part of the show anymore. I think it's clear which couple the show has more respect for, even though they may have charged ahead without them. When the show moved on from BL as a couple it didn't just move on, but made it a point to try and diminish BL as much as possible in the process.

I say this as obviously a BL fan but also someone who really misses Lucas and Peyton as characters as well. I wish they did more reasonable mentions when necessary but I understand why they don't too, and really don't have sympathy when comparing the situation to what they did with BL, which was definitely more unfair and disrespectful.

without question, i think this one is a much more serious issue. from what i've seen, i think a lot of BL-ers tend to overexaggerate, when it comes to the BL references (or lack there of) in the show today. OMFG they showed a red door! what a slap in the face to BL! come on. BL dont own red doors, brooke does. and her simply moving on with her life (and with a new guy) doesnt mean that every little scene is meant to diminish BL. i dont think they're even thinking about BL, because really, there's no reason for them to anymore at this point. so i highly doubt they're conspiring to belittle them or something. there's a difference between TRULY belittling someone, and the audience just making a big deal, and being defensive over nothing. and there's even a difference between your couple being ripped off, and your couple being insulted. and i think that's the case here.

but them acting as if LP just fell off the face of the earth is just inexcusable. whether mark wants the audience to focus on the "new" OTH or not, there's no way that naley, or brooke wouldn't still be thinking about, and talking about LP. there's no way that LP wouldn't have atleast sent brooke a wedding present, or haley flowers after just recently delivering THEIR NIECE. or a phone call. or a letter. or a email. or a post card.... SOMETHING. and its not just the fact that they should be a big part of the remaining characters' lives... they ARE still a big part of OTH. as much as mark wants to ignore it, it's true. and him not acknowledging that is making him lose all is credibility as a writer. especially not mentioning lucas ONCE, during all of the rivercourt drama. REALLY? he IS the rivercourt. theres just no excuse for that kind of crap.

I'm not saying the way they are treating LP is fair, it's most certainly bullshit. It doesn't make any sense & it's hurtful to their fans.

BUT, take a moment to look at what BL'ers have been dealt. [And I'm just going with a few of the main, INDISPUTABLE facts:] And then tell me if you really believe BL hasn't been insulted or made out like their whole relationship was nothing.

1.) Lucas saying "I'm not the guy for you Brooke Davis."
2.) "The realization that we had always been meant for each other and every instinct to the contrary had simply been a denial of the following truth - I was now and would always be in love with Peyton Sawyer." [Basically saying that his relationship with Brooke was a denial of his feelings for Peyton.]
3.) Brooke playing nonstop cheerleader for LP in S5.
4.) Lucas calling Peyton 'pretty girl'.
5.) Sophia's barrage of negative comments towards BL/BL'ers.

YES, it is complete and utter bullshit the way Mark is handling things, but at least he hasn't completely degraded LP's relationship. At the very least, LP fans can be comforted knowing that LP is off living happily ever after with their daughter.

For BL fans, it just feels like everything gets taken from us. =[

^ Good points, Holly. I guess LP'ers just tend to see those things that you pointed out differently, though. You guys naturally see those things as belittling/insulting BL. While I think we just see those things as simply... part of their story, and falling out as a couple. I guess each fanbase is naturally just more sensitive to the situation involving their own couple!

You guys naturally see those things as belittling/insulting BL. While I think we just see those things as simply... part of their story, and falling out as a couple

exactly. i dont really consider any of those things as insults. they're not, really. they're just the ways that BL's story as a couple unraveled. lucas saying "i'm not the guy for you" isn't an insult, its just how he came to feel in the end. and him saying positive things about LP isn't an insult, it's just how he came to feel in the end about LP. and brooke being team LP isn't an insult to BL, she just grew up and realized that LP were the ones meant to be together. people change their minds, it happens. and that's what happened with BL. just because they didn't spend the rest of the show staying loyal to their original thoughts on BL doesn't mean they were insulting them. and any "pro-LP" or "pro-BJu" comment or quote isn't automatically an insult to BL.

It all just sucks instantly warmed my heart. A perfect description of OTH in general.

Both are bad. For example using the "pretty girl" for LP was just unnecessary I didn´t like it at all.
The reason I picked the LP choice was the fact that they are acting like LP never existed, as well as making it seem like Breyton, Laley & Paley never existed and never mattered is just stupid. The Breyton bashing has been ridiculous too as well as rewriting history (Haley´s maid of honor speech). LP were 2 of the 5 core characters and deserve to be mentioned.
I never saw Brooke wanting LP to be together as bashing BL. She was just over Lucas a long time ago and wanted her friends to be happy, especially her best friend and she could see they still loved each other so.. I think it had little to do with BL. But I do understand why BL'ers didn´t appreciate it.

Yeah i get what you guys are saying, and it's even that some of them are insults to BRUCAS. It's that it's insulting to US BL'ERS! Which i know you guys understand.

i think the whole show kinda sucks now, but wants more unfair? bl being dissed so much because its completely not needed. like why bother writing in these little things, with lp not being mentioned enough they arent actively going out of their way to belittle th couple, its a simple fact lp are not on the show anymore so they don't get mentions. so why does bl get negative mentions so much? why does the show do these things to take bl things back? they are taking the time to do this when they could be using that time to work on the problems in the show, to strengthen current storylines, or hell to remind people that peyton and lucas were huge parts of these characters lives and still should be. lp still has what lp was when they were on the show for lpers, yet blers ship is belittled even five seasons after their relationship was shown and special things are being torn apart for us. hell we're not even meant to believe they were ever even really in love, wtf! wtff! what for? it fn pisses me off. the show didnt need to down brucas (which was a little unbelievable for anyone who actually watched the show and doesnt choose to forget what use to be) to make anything else in the show better, they should of worked on the everything else and building the other stuff up isntead of tearing bl down. yeah bloody unfair.

Really?? Being forgotten when you basically the main couple of the show is by far more unfair. They were their from the beginning! And they got endgame. They have some of the most amazing and powerful moments in OTH. How can you act as if they don't exist?! I find it way more unfair.

Brucas isn't even really insulted. Their just forgotten about, which makes perfect since considering they've been over since season 4. Brooke has moved on & Lucas has moved on. I just don't see how they're really insulted.

^ Well said... agree :)

I'm sorry but to say that BL hasn't really been insulted... that's just not true.

Maybe some of you don't see certain things as insults, but if some of the comments THE SHOW has made about BL, were made about LP... I'm not trying to be rude but I KNOW LP fans would be pissed.

There are just certain things that were NOT NECESSARY!

A prime example of what I'm talking about:

-Making Brooke say "It's ALWAYS been Lucas & Peyton." THAT IS AN INSULT TO BL/BL FANS. We didn't freaking imagine or dream Seasons 2 & 3 so I'm sorry, but no, it HASN'T always been L&P and it's hurtful to us BL fans to have the writers try and force us to believe otherwise =/

-Lucas calling Peyton 'pretty girl'. I'm sorry guys but I will NEVER stop pointing this out. This may seem like a small thing, but think about how you would feel if Lucas told Brooke "Your art matters." or idunno... at one of the basketball games, Lucas fumbles and Brooke teased him by saying "Nice hands!" & he flirted back, "Nice legs!".

Can you honestly say having something like that used for BL wouldn't have bothered you??

It's the stuff like that... if you look past which couple you ship, and just focus only on how YOU would feel if your couple had shit like that tossed at them, I really don't see how anyone would say BL hasn't been insulted.

The pretty girl thing, I can understand. Even though it's a pretty common nickname, and I think that's just one of those things that's a LUCAS thing... it DID kind of become a BL staple. And while I'm still not sure that I'd call it an "insult", I'm not going to be a hypocrite, and deny that it shouldn't have pissed BL (and even some LP) fans off. Because it's basically the same thing as us LP'ers complaining about, and mocking all of the LP/BJu rip-offs. So I'll give you that!

Making Brooke say "It's ALWAYS been Lucas & Peyton." THAT IS AN INSULT TO BL/BL FANS. We didn't freaking imagine or dream Seasons 2 & 3 so I'm sorry, but no, it HASN'T always been L&P and it's hurtful to us BL fans to have the writers try and force us to believe otherwise =/

But this, I think is open for opinion. Because like you (and most BL fans) say that it wasn't always L&P... many people feel differently, and feel that Brooke had every right, or reason to say something like that. And that doesn't mean that BL didn't still love each other back in the BL days. Or that Lucas loved Peyton over Brooke. Or that Lucas even loved Peyton at all, for that matter. It just means for many of us that while BL were together... LP was still very much... around. And I think that's a fair, and legitimate thing to say, because it's true. Brooke even acknowledged it herself, quite a few times, while dating Lucas.

But again, it all just comes down to what we personally interpret as insults. Brooke kind of "jumping ship" I think is just something that had to happen. It's even something that most likely WOULD happen, in real life, as the people involved in the triangle grow up... and two of the people aren't in love anymore, but the other two are. But especially on TV, I think those kind of statements needed to be written, to show us that the triangle really is over, ya know? And I don't think it's something that came out of mid-air or anything, just for Mark to force LP on everyone. We saw even in S4 that Brooke had already accepted LP, and realized that THEY were the ones who should be together. I just didn't see that statement as anything new. I figured most of us already knew that Brooke felt that way, anyway.

"But this, I think is open for opinion. Because like you (and most BL fans) say that it wasn't always L&P... many people feel differently, and feel that Brooke had every right, or reason to say something like that. And that doesn't mean that BL didn't still love each other back in the BL days. Or that Lucas loved Peyton over Brooke. Or that Lucas even loved Peyton at all, for that matter. It just means for many of us that while BL were together... LP was still very much... around."

While I see why this upset BL fans a lot, I personally very much agree with you. I thought that was just the most acceptable P.O.V. for Brooke to take after everything went down. I think it was easier for her to forgive LP the hurt they caused her if she believed their strong love for each other was behind it, rather than them just being completely selfish and uncaring towards her.

And I'm not disagreeing with you guys on that, BUT there were other, better worded ways they could have had Brooke show her support, you know?

How about instead of: Honey, Lindsey doesn't stand a chance, trust me. I have been the "Lindsey" between "Lucas and Peyton" and it is not a great place to be. Brooke could have just said: Honey, Lindsey doesn't stand a chance, trust me.

&& instead of having the "It has ALWAYS been Lucas & Peyton." :

You guys are meant to be together. It's the way it's supposed to be. So go and get your man. And this time, if he proposes please say yes.

It's just a matter of thinking, hey, look how easy it would have been to not completely piss of BL fans! lol.

^ I guess I just feel like BL fans still would have been pissed off, no matter what Brooke's exact statements were. If it's anything even remotely "Team Leyton"... BL'ers will most likely consider it as disrespect for BL. Atleast from what I've seen lol.

And again, it really WAS "always Lucas and Peyton", to some extent. Whether it be in regards to friendship, romance, consideration of each other's feelings, looking out for each other... what have you. The threat of LP was always there for Brooke, in one way or another. And she showed that, herself. So I still see that statement as being reasonable, because it has a lot of truth behind it. But that's just me :)

Some people are so selfish. LP WERE FREAKING END GAME. Whereas not only were Brucas NOT end game, they were completely dismantled, squashed and thrown in a fire. In other words, they were DESTROYED and made to look like a laughing stock and that they were never in love. SO WHAT that LP aren't on the show anymore. What, do you think it's so much better for BL fans? They have to watch Brooke's character being OOC and annoying, and having babies with someone that never has and never will deserve her.

Just be grateful to have your couple together! The show would end anyway so just grow up and be grateful. Jesus.

^LP fans are more then grateful that Leyton got endgame.

Some people are so selfish. LP WERE FREAKING END GAME

We ARE grateful. But it's STILL unfair that they're the MAIN couple of the show and everyone on the show go along with their day as if Leyton [who were connected to everyone] never existed.

LP getting endgame has nothing to do with anything. So, what are you saying? Just because we got endgame, we need to sit in the corner with our mouths shut, twiddling our thumbs, and being content with everything? No. We still have every right to be disappointed, about anything that we feel necessary. Just because they got endgame (which we ARE grateful for, BTW... we voice that almost daily), doesn't mean that we can't still have complaints about them not getting the acknowledgement that they fully deserve, and have earned.

^Nope, but the fact remains that how LP fans can think they are treated worse than BL fans is the most stupid thing ever

^ wtf? no one said anything about LP fans being treated worse than BL fans. it's just that when comparing THESE two options, we obviously feel that this one is worse. and we have every right, and reason to think that. LP being endgame has nothing to do with that. we appreciate LP's endgame, and all the amazing things that we did get every single day, you don't even know what you're talking about

I agree with Katie. LP got endgame and got to leave the show before it was destroyed. If I were an LP fan I'd appreciate that fact so fucking much. Yes LP aren't mentioned anymore simply because Mark's stupid. LP should have at least been kind of present in things like Haley's mom dying, Brooke's wedding, Brooke AND Haley being pregnant but they weren't and ALL fans of the show are pissed about that but idk I think that's expected when main characters leave. Shows never handle it properly but like Holly said you can envision LP having a happy life together but BL fans get shit. Not even a friendship. BL is lately only seen as a bad memory to Brooke which in itself is bull. *Sigh*