Annabethandco Fantastic article <3

laylastepford I'm so glad to see that you have finished and posted this article, YAY! I have rented "Brave" on Netflix so I am just waiting for it to arrive. As soon as I get a chance to see the movie again, I will come back and re-read this as I want to see the film again for reference. So glad you posted this! You have already pointed out some things that I do recognize upon mentioning, such as her father's encouragement despite her mother's disapproval. I find this to be super key so I am very glad you mentioned it. I will come back and post again in better detail after I have re-watched the film. Excellently detailed and thorough post! I love the collages and full explanations.

anukriti2409 thank you so much Annabethandco!!

anukriti2409 Thank you laylastepford!!! haha, yes, i finally completed. I kept going back to the saved draft to make changes again and again until i was satisfied with the detailing i wanted to put into it. I'm also quite glad that i was finally able to put words to my opinions on Merida, as she;s my 2nd fav and I didn't like it much that everyone bashed her around without any defense article for her. Though i'm always amused to see what i see positive in her, most people see negative. But each to their own, as i always would say. I do credit you for posting "In defense of Ariel and Eric" coz that's what got me inspired along with other articles i had been reading on "My favorite princess" I very much look forward to seeing your detailed response (i'll be hugely disappointed if it wouldn't be detailed :D ...just kidding) post however much you feel necessary to share your viewpoint.

laylastepford ^I enjoy having detailed conversations with you and I will definitely post a response that will not disappoint. You took a lot of time and effort into writing this and that's why I want to give the respect of seeing the film again first and then giving you my newfound analysis on her. You gave me a reason to look forward to seeing Brave so you have already positively affected a Merida-naysayer by making me excited to see her movie and get to know her all over again!

laylastepford Okay so I have re-watched the movie Brave, a few times to make sure, and I am now going to address your points here since I am refreshed in the film and character. This is long and detailed as promised so hope you don't mind too much: 1.Why she isn't sophisticated as others: I agree with you 100%. I would just like to augment that no matter what, she was way too young to be given a bow at that tiny small age. Her father should've waited until she was a bit older, whether she was a boy or girl; allowed/encouraged to have weapons or not. Just my opinion as I think constantly of children and how they are affected. Also I think the father should've paid attention to her plate because the answer to "so what?" is no girl is going to eat all that to herself, she will only get sick and greatly harm her internal health. Also we learned she was actually harming the boys' health (unintentionally of course) so he should've paid attention because Elinor was right that there was something wrong going on there but she should've paid more attention since she realized what was going on. Realistically those boys would've gotten so sick from so many pastries. I don't hold that against her or anything though, just my opinion. 2. She adores her little brothers: I agree with you 100% except I don't believe in over-spoiling children. I think it's great she had a good relationship with them but I think in the long-term she was harming them by spoiling them in the way she was and wished she would've spoiled them in other ways that were less harmful to themselves. Again, I don't hold that against her or anything though, just my opinion. 3. She's isn't that irresponsible: Yes it was shown that she would attend all classes dutifully but she didn't have a choice as she was forced to be there. She could've made the best of it and tried to learn instead of "doodling" or not paying attention or actually trying in the lessons. She didn't have to be enthusiastic but she could've tried more. I do believe her mother was giving her a lot to do but it was all with the best of intentions. She wanted her to be cultured and well-rounded by giving her knowledge of poems, history, music, etc. Perhaps if Merida had embraced it instead of rejected it, her mother would be more open to hearing her opinion more as she wouldn't feel like Merida was [i]always[/i] rebelling and resisting. I don't know if you have ever heard of the "boy who cried wolf" tale but it kind of reminds me of that. When Merida is [i]always[/i] complaining and rebelling against [i]everything[/i] then it takes away from when she's rebelling against something much more monumental and important. When she resists everything, she makes her mother have to grow insensitive to her resistance as she will find it customary for Merida to just argue with her about every single new activity or request. Whereas if Merida had learned how to pick her battles, then her mother would realize that these issues Merida does choose to speak out about are much more important to her and have far more weight in them therefore need more consideration and understanding (and perhaps compromise). That's why Elinor didn't realize about the bow with Merida until Merida cried, because it was something Merida didn't often do which told her mother [i]this is different[/i]. I don't believe that Merida always put in as much effort as she could manage because even her father had more self control and since she has some of her mother in her and her father doesn't, she should be able to show more self control too. Pulling her hair out at the ceremony was an act of pure rebellion for rebellion sake. She just couldn't let go of her pride for one ceremony. Also her mother was constantly disappointed in her for a reason, Merida wasn't really giving full effort. And she did eventually run away. 4. How Merida's genuine interests are rather ignored by Elinor: Much like earlier, I believe Merida brings this onto herself. I do agree with you that Elinor does not show enough interests in her daughter's unique hobbies etc but I do believe they are both equally guilty here. I believe Elinor is guilty in not paying enough attention to the fact that her daughter is her father's daughter, as you mentioned before. I think Merida is guilty though for not having any manners or etiquette as Elinor tries so hard to teach her. Very simple things like "no weapons on the table" or "good posture" aren't that demanding and horrible for Merida to learn, they only help her and everyone else. I believe Elinor feels her daughter has no interest in learning all of the things she is trying to teach her or receive all of the gifts she is trying to give her so she loses interest in Merida who only seems to ever want to argue with her or resist her on everything. I still don't think Elinor should give up on her though because she is the mother and adult who chose to have Merida whereas Merida had no say in that. I don't agree that Merida has grown comfortable being alone because of any kind of neglect from her mother, I believe she isolated herself because she didn't like her mother correcting her and then got used to the isolation. She pulled away from her mother though her mother wasn't pulling away from her as shown by her consistent correcting of her. Merida even admits this towards the end of the film, that she was wrong all along in many ways and that she wasn't realizing how much her mother was just trying to be there for her and help her. I think climbing those falls was incredibly "overtly dangerous". They never showed how she got down which would've been far more dangerous then how she got up there and even going up she almost fell off and could've died. 5. She's an excellent learner with inquisitive mind: I somewhat agree. She is inquisitive and an excellent learner only when it comes to her own specific hobbies, not overall. Realistically those geography lessons would tell her where is safe, where is inhabited, etc. before she went out and potentially found out the "hard way". I don't know how the "story of an ancient kingdom" intrigued her when she didn't really seem to want to listen when her mother first told it? 6. She isn't reckless or rash at all, only that she expresses her emotions exasperatedly than being humble about it : I completely disagree with you here. I disagree that she "accidently and unintentionally" changed her mother into a bear because she had full intent of changing her mother and sought out a potion to change her mind. Granted she didn't know it would turn her mother into a bear instead of changing her mind but that's what you get when you try to make deals with the devil, which that showed. It was very similar to Naveen in Princess and the Frog who "technically" didn't intend to change into a frog but fully intended to take an "easy cheating and manipulative" way out of his problems like Merida was instead of having the character to deal with them head on. She practiced speaking to Angus but then never confronted her mother the same way which would have been the harder but more valiant and respectable thing to do. • Climbing up those falls was incredibly reckless. No one knew where she was and if she got hurt, no one would have known until long after she didn't return and most likely was dead. Feeding her brothers all of those pastries was also reckless. Realistically they'd get very sick from it. She joined the ceremony and "shot for her own hand" which was very reckless as she had no idea how all of the males she just emasculated and insulted would react. This one act was arguably necessary or positive but still reckless nonetheless. • You are 100% right about Elinor being awful by not telling Merida about being betrothed BEFORE she sent out the invitations. While I'm sure Merida had to know it was coming, especially if she paid attention in class as she would've learned it as part of history/law, she should've been told before the letters went out not after they were responded to. That's just decency to me, even in that time and place of forced arranged marriages to be the law and inflexible. The girl should've been warned that this epic change in life was about to occur. I don't think Merida's shocked reaction was rude at all, I thought it was appropriate. I'm surprised anyone would say it was rude. Elinor should not have done that. I think she did it because she knew like everything else, Merida would just reject it and fight her on it, but since she knew that Merida would fight her at any stage of the process, she owed it to say it to her before she started it. • I completely disagree with you that Elinor "hadn't even given a single thought about it ever". That's just not true as Elinor says later to her husband Fergus "all I've been doing to give you the life we never had". That clearly shows that she had been thinking about Merida the whole time, albeit not the way Merida wanted her to. While Elinor didn't see that Merida wanted to everything differently, it doesn't mean that she wasn't thinking of her at all, not even a single thought ever". She's not that horrible of a woman and mother. She actually does care about Merida's future and about giving Merida more than she had for herself which is exactly what good parents want for their children: To have better lives than themselves. Elinor was just misguided about it, not self-centered. • I disagree with you completely that Elinor doesn't show a "single ounce of understanding" and actually I would say that Merida "doesn't show a single ounce of understanding". Merida completely forgets that this is exactly what happened to her mother, and her mother, and her mother, and her mother. How is Elinor really supposed to know that Merida is going to be the first one to insult her line by rejecting their traditions? She loves her mother and her father and they both got married this way so it's only reasonable for Elinor not to understand why Merida is making something negative out of it. It just comes off insulting to Elinor and Fergus. Merida doesn't seem to know anything about what's fair and I would never expect a parent to listen to a child about "what's fair or not". The world isn't fair but we make the best of it, that's life. One could easily say that "It's not fair that Merida got to break tradition while all other women in her family before couldn't." Just because Merida considers something not to be fair doesn't actually make it so and I don't expect Elinor to expect Merida to be all wise beyond her years when she shows so many signs of immaturity. • I have no idea by what you mean about Merida "didn't out her parents in front of others". There was nothing to "out" them about. 7. Elinor announces the ceremony ritual; Merida saw the logical way to make her mother understand her perspective: I mostly agree and somewhat disagree. I wish Merida would've actually tried to have that talk with her mother like she practiced with Angus. The movie made it seem like the people came the very next day but that's highly unlikely since they were coming by boat. At the same time, Elinor should've approached her daughter first since she is the parent, the responsibility falls on her to make things right and make herself as understood by her daughter as possible. That being said, I do think what Merida did was clever but also reckless. I'm torn because it almost started a war and had Merida not gone through all of her own growth and change to correct this mistake, a war would've broken out simply for no reason other than Merida's stubbornness, selfishness and rebelliousness. I see both the positives and negatives. 8. A logical demonstration of her talent: This is why I see both positives and negatives. I think Elinor severely screwed up here. Once Merida already entered herself into the contest and won, Elinor should've tried to make it a challenge like her daughter was deserving of a great warrior. Let's be honest, Merida got kind of excited when she thought that big huge dude was Dingwall's son. She clearly likes a great warrior like her father. If I had been Elinor, I would've taken Merida's winning as a contest of only a man who can shoot better than my daughter deserves her hand and tried to swing it as another challenge. This is so unfair of men, when they can’t compete against a woman of superior talent, they simply outcast her. If that is not mean and unfair and crude of these chivalrous leaders and her parents trying to pass these laughable suitors as best match for Merida, then I don’t know what is. Sorry but no one likes to be publicly humiliated so you can't ask these men to come fight for your hand and then insult them as your allies. You have to give some kind of human consideration and decency which I think another challenge would've solved by Elinor and Fergus. 9. Elinor STILL doesn’t want to listen to the truth: And neither does Merida. Merida is selfish when she says it's unfair so that shouldn't mean anything to Elinor. It's just an insult to Elinor. Merida is basically saying "It was fair for you to have to marry my father but I'm a better woman than you so I should have more choice than you did because that would be fair to me." but it's not. Because Merida has no grace or etiquette, she knows not how to choose her battles or word her arguments. She should've told Elinor something about the fact that she was able to emasculate all those guys and that she didn't want to settle for a man who was less than her own father. I think Elinor would've respected and understood that and felt more inclined to help her rather than Merida's selfish argument. Okay Merida's not ready for marriage but maybe Elinor wasn't either which she showed she wasn't fully "I had my doubts too" she says when talking to Fergus. Life happens to us whether we are ready or not and that was something Merida needed to learn. She was fighting the right fight but with all of the wrong arguments. Talking about fair, is it really fair that Merida gets to back-talk the Queen just because she is her daughter? No one else in the entire kingdom of any clan would be allowed to talk to Elinor that way or get away with it so Merida should explain why it's fair for her to have so much more leeway with the Queen than anyone else in the entire kingdom. No matter what, Merida had no excuse to rip that tapestry. If a civilian had done that, realistically they probably would've been given the death penalty for such disrespect to royalty. Merida was already greatly hurting her mother and insulting her by saying "I'll never be like you" which she says as though being like Elinor is a bad thing. Elinor must have been heartbroken by that and on top of it, then Merida ripped the quilt symbolically ripping her mother away from herself and her father. Because her father lacks class and manners, he gets no resistance from Merida so how is that fair? Because her father is burdened with "protection and providing" and dealing more with others while her mother is burdened with "peace and order" and dealing more with the kids, it is unfair that Merida takes everything out on her mother and not her father. As we saw earlier, the father is lazy and just wants to spoil Merida. He forces his wife Elinor to have to deal with all of the hard work when it comes to raising and disciplining the children. Of course this is going to make her look like the strict one and him like the fun easy-going one even though she is the one putting boat loads more time, energy and effort into the raising of the children than he is. Since she does all the work, she gets all the backlash. Now that is not fair. No wonder it was so hard for her to relax. She had triplets who are just as wild and crazy as Merida if not worse and Merida encouraged their bad behavior on top of it! Poor Elinor had her plate full of responsibilities. 10. Merida never wanted to hurt her mother; she was only trying to find yet another solution: She was trying to cheat and manipulate her way into changing her mother's mind. She didn't want to conform so she wanted to force her mother to conform. That's not admirable to me. Just because the wisps led her to the witch's cottage didn't mean she had to trust the witch who was incredibly suspicious. It was clear the witch was manipulative and not honest as she kept trying to pretend to be a wood carver. Had she listened to her mother's story when she tried to tell her the legend of "Mor'du" then she would've easily imagined that the spell would change her mother into a bear. She would've recognized the spell from the story and knew that it was not the answer but she never listened so she brought this onto herself. While her intentions may not have been to "hurt" her mother, she wasn't doing her any kind of favor. She had no idea what this spell would do, only that it would "change" her which means she wanted to change or manipulate her mother instead of having the respect and decency to really try herself. This is also shown to me when she comes back and her mother is immediately worried and upset and apologizing to her. She told her "you and I both know a decision still has to be made though". If Merida was listening and paying attention, she would've realized that this would've been the most opportune moment for a heart-to-heart talk with her mother but instead she immediately went for the "magic" instead. 11. She has a side that's caring yet determined and strong-willed: Merida didn't keep her cool when her mother turned into a bear, she was immediately terrified and screamed and slid away from her mother. It wasn't until she saw that her mother got scared herself and started hurting herself all over the room that Merida finally got ahold of herself and started to help her mother. Also Merida didn't know her mother had turned into a real bear to have ran away instead. It wasn't until Elinor as a bear tried to attack Merida that Merida was able to make the decision to "run away" or not and I think it was obvious she wouldn't run away because her best chance in that moment [i]is[/i] to talk reason to her mother. Running away would only incite a chase and lead to her own possible death. That's survival skills. 12. She CAN sacrifice her happiness when the need arrives, for her family: Only at the end but not the beginning or entire middle. Also she didn't have a choice but to go into that room with the other clans since she was the one who put herself, her mother and the clans in that position. While I can admire someone facing the mistakes they have made, I don't find them to be anything special since they caused such chaos in the first place. I have more respect for the people who never caused a war to almost start than someone who did cause a war to almost start but stopped it before it started. Also I don't find this super commendable because it was forced on her, not chosen by her. She was forced to submit for her mother's sake, she didn't actually believe any of the words she was saying which is why she re-said them at the end with meaning to her mother. Both times it took extreme events to make Merida apologize because she didn't just apologize on her own. That being said, she did give a long sincere deep and genuine apology to her mother at the end. She was also able to bring peace by being just like her mother, showing that her mother was closer to balance the whole time than she was. Her mother just looked more imbalanced to her because she was so extremely imbalanced. That's why her father was beaming with pride when she gave the speech and he said she was just like her mother. He loves her mother dearly which is shown many times in the film. He loved seeing Merida have more balance than she had before. This proves her mother had only been trying to help Merida the whole time and while Elinor may have been a bit misguided or thrown off by how revolutionary Merida was, she still only had the best and most loving and positive of intents. I think her speech was a good step because it forced her to let go of her pride and say a speech she didn't fully believe for others to get along and she realized that it didn't kill her to say something she didn't believe 100%. She realized that she could find a balance instead of being so stubborn. I don't think she was selfless, I think she just learned a very important lesson in maturity. 13. She'll stand for what's right, no matter how she's judged to be crazy: I don't agree with this. She'll stand for what [b]she thinks[/b] is right, no matter how she's judged. That, I can agree with. Not everything she stood for was universally right, it was right for her and that's all she cared about. She almost ignited a war because of what was right for her, which is why all of her reasoning revolved around what she wanted and what she thought, not what she thought was universally wrong. Also I cant fully commend her for standing up to her father because again, she put them all in that situation. It was her fault her father was almost killing her mother so she had to do something about it. I don't think people should start problems just to be commended on fixing them even though they were the ones who started them in the first place. I don't agree with those kinds of manipulative actions at all. 14. She owns up to her mistake: Yes she does which I am very thankful occurred in the film. I just think it's such a shame that we didn't get to see more of her at this point in her life rather than before. This is the part of Merida that I commend, respect and like. 15. Would the spell have, if Elinor also wouldn't have realized her own mistake in forcing Merida?: I don't believe it was Elinor's mistake to force Merida into marriage at all. I think the entire spell was Merida's manipulation come true and she got what she wanted, whether it was right or wrong because she cheated. Merida's spell changed Elinor into a bear which made her have to fend for herself in the wild, where Merida [i]chose[/i] to spend her time, which is the only reason why it worked out for Elinor to come to respect what Merida was doing in her free time. Realistically, Elinor would never have been turned into a bear and needed Merida to substitute her father for her and take his place, forcing Elinor to admire Merida's outdoors skills more. Merida's spell forced Elinor to live in Merida's world and I don't think that was proper at all. Elinor lives in the real world where her husband protects her outside and she provides inside the home. Now yes, she could've potentially been more open to Merida's abnormality but that doesn't make Elinor wrong. I don't agree with you at all that Elinor had a pride issue, I think she had a communication issue but not pride issue. Obviously Elinor didn't have pride issues because she was always the first to fold to Merida whereas Merida never folded to her mother first. The spell had nothing to do with Elinor. She said "we both have changed" at the end because she did change but I don't believe for one second it had anything to do with Elinor because then it doesn't explain why the boys were magically transformed since they didn't come to any realizations. It seemed 100% to me that the magic all revolved around Merida fixing her mistakes since she paid for the spell and initiated it. I believe Elinor saying "we both have changed" was just something that happened to work out for Merida because she changed so her mother was willing to change too but had nothing to do with the spell at all.

anukriti2409  4. sub point: “I don’t agree that Merida has grown comfortable because of her mother’s neglect but she chose to be isolated” Like you said in point 3, that it’s both fault that Merida didn’t enjoy and respect what Elinor wanted her to learn and Elinor wasn’t interested in her daughter’s unique hobbies. But isolation is not by choice, especially if you love someone in heart but just can’t seem to connect with them with the actions and words. It would have worked in both ways, Elinor neglecting her daughter’s interests and Merida herself not taking interest in her mother’s expectations. Both the things were happening which widen the gap between them. They both could have made more effort, but both didn’t take the initiative and expected other to understand them only. I find Elinor to be slightly more at fault, being elder and more mature and being a parent. Merida wouldn’t have wanted to be isolated as a choice. 6. About not being reckless or rash at all: this was only in context of taking decisions in regards to her betrothal only. I have given step by step explanation of what all she did before resorting to witch’s spell. A reckless person do not think of so many things before resorting to last option. What I can say is she was immature in choice of solutions. I completely agree that she should have taken it forward, her speech practice with Angus. For that I can say she lacked communication skills completely, not reckless. She was a skilled horse rider, and has been wandering fields and terrains all her life. It wasn’t reckless of her to try Falls of Fire hike, she very much knew her capabilities. People do it all the time, its adventurous not reckless. It seems reckless to people who do not know how to do it, like mountain climbing, mountain biking etc. A reckless person does all these things on impulse, not as regular thing. She may not have hiked that particular spot, she would have done several hikes and ridden several terrains, which it is shown she’s very skilled at. About Merida “accidentally and unintentionally” changing her mother into a bear: I don’t understand the point of contradiction. You yourself is saying that she didn’t know if the spell would turn her mother into a bear or not, then how was it intentional and deliberate? She didn’t run out to find a witch, she ran out in hurt. She wasn’t looking for will-o-wisps or witch either. It was purely accidental that she happened upon them. She also didn’t realize it was witch’s cottage until she remembered her mother saying that wisps lead to one’s fate. What was intentional was her poor choice of words “a spell that would change my mum”. She never once says I want to change my mother;s way of thinking. She has a deep problem in her communication. And if I were to say that even on insisting, she wanted that spell desperately and not seeing that talking is better way of resolving things. I didn’t say that “Elinor didn’t give it a single thought about it (marriage) ever”. Perhaps you misread it, I said Merida hadn’t given a single thought about it ever before. I, do truly, believe that Elinor is one of the best mother and is not horrible person at all and have best of intentions and care for Merida at heart. That’s what I love about this movie so much that no one is a villain as such, the problems between people who love each other are often because we do not express ourselves better and think of our expectations before others. That relationships can be saved and nurtured and new ones can be build if only we open ourselves to connect, put a bit of effort in communication and to give before we take. About Merida “outing her parents” – meaning not showing up next day even after having an argument with her mother. She didn’t go just missing which would have been so embarrassing for her parents. There was everything to “out” her parents, she could have simply been a true rebel and said I’m not going to attend the ceremony altogether. I;m sorry if a true warrior feels public humiliated by being defeated in show of talent. If they can’t even accept being defeated humbly in simple show of talent, what makes them so great or even good human, I fail to understand. How being challenged in a talent show by a woman is humiliation is completely out of my understanding. That’s where the cultural expectations are wrongly set. A woman shouldn’t question/challenge a man’s talent in public, please explain why, especially when they are here to win her hand by show of that talent themselves? What truth Merida isn’t listening from Elinor? It’s not an insult to Elinor to recall that she got betrothed exactly this way. Merida is simply asking to call off the ceremony. I have no idea how you’ve come to an interpretation like this “Merida is basically saying "It was fair for you to have to marry my father but I'm a better woman than you so I should have more choice than you did because that would be fair to me." but it's not.” Merida isn’t comparing anyone. In fact Elinor is comparing her times with Merida’s. She says that she also did this, so should Merida. Merida never once said it was okay for you to get married that way. She simply said she isn’t ready for marriage. She isn’t asking for choice, she’s asking for time. I think you’ve completely misread some part here. That’s very rude and disrespectful to call someone graceless and having no etiquettes simply because someone is not good in wording their communication. I completely agree that she was fighting the right fight but with all the wrong arguments and that’s why she was failing time and again. That is what she learns eventually, that how to speak your mind with more self control and clarity. Back-talk to any elder is disrespectful to them. But Merida is a princess herself, and she definitely has every right to counter-argument. Elinor is not only Queen but a mother. Both status play an equal role. Are you saying that Queen Elinor is doing Merida a favor by giving this much of leeway with her? Then the entire premise of mother-daughter relationship here is flawed. I think it is wrong of Elinor to bring her Queen status as a weapon to quiet down Merida, simply because she cannot comprehend Merida’s apprehensions. I agree that Merida could have chosen to enlighten Elinor how none of them are well-worthy of her instead of just randomly throwing a fit in anger but it would have simply slowed down the process a bit and further misguided Elinor into thinking that perhaps another show of talent would make Merida want to get married, whereas Merida just simply didn’t want to get married. I completely agree that Merida was wrong in hurting her mother with splitting that tapestry. I also agree that it was wrong of her to take it all out on her mother and simply because her father didn’t pressurize her as he was busy in other things, he gets away with it. But I have to say, her father understands Merida better than Elinor, he already knew that Merida would resist getting married when he asked Elinor to practice talking with Merida with him in their room. He said everything that Merida would say “I want to roam wild and free in glens”. About Merida never wanting to hurt her mother: It was Merida;s life in question not Elinor’s. And she was being literally pressurized into making a long term decision, in no time given to her at all to settle into it. So there’s no question of whether she wanted to conform or not. It was a question why did Elinor wanted her to conform to something on which Merida should have a final say in making that decision. I completely agree that Merida could have used that opportune moment in the kitchen when Elinor showed she was worried for her and had pacified the lords for time being. At least she could have given it a try before resorting to magic spell, at least. Merida keeping her cool: That’s an instantaneous reaction of seeing your own mother turning into a bear. Taking a bit of time to adjust to something like this is very natural. Survival instincts and impulsive would have been if she would have attacked the bear or run out of room screaming to help her. I don’t agree at all with that Merida chose to stay put and logically weighed talking with mother as best option to save herself. If that was the case, she would have kicked, thrown something back out of fear and survival instincts. If Merida is that selfish, tell me something, why does she even bother to bring her mother back? Leave her be in bear form, she can easily convince her father to not get married by manipulating him into thinking this is Elinor’s decision herself. Call off the wedding first, then think about finding a solution for her mother. She didn’t know that the spell was temporary or permanent or when will it become permanent. She left everything aside, and thought of her mother’s protection foremost. She knew her father would kill Elinor in castle, she got her out first to take her back to witch’s cottage to change her back on first priority. She CAN sacrifice her happiness: It was Merida who was pressurized into making a decision she wasn’t ready for. It was Elinor who put Merida into a situation without talking about it in advance with Merida. She simply took away one of the most important freedom to make a decision of her own life partner. Elinor took away the time from Merida to explain how she feels about getting married. I don’t understand how come it suddenly came about as Merida’s fault single-handedly when Elinor started it with taking away Merida’s choice in making the decision for her life? If Merida only cared about herself, she would have left Elinor and simply denied getting married altogether. She still didn’t want to get married but only for her mother’s sake she was ready to sacrifice such an important thing. Imagine saying yes to being married without your consent in it, how happy would you be? I think you’ve missed the emotion completely when she looked at her mother and said she needs to mend her mistake and mend their bond. She sincerely believed that and was ready to do whatever it takes, even if it called to sacrifice her own happiness for it. What she didn’t believe was that she was actually going to say yes to marriage despite her not wanting it. I totally disagree that someone should be forced into saying something they didn’t 100% believe in. That only means you are asking someone to lie. I agree that the speech did her good and she was able to let go of her pride with admitting her mistake in front of others. She didn’t cause a war at all! Clans wouldn’t accept that she was better talented from all their sons and was still claiming for her hand and were threatening to go into war if she wouldn’t give a decision. Why can’t they just accept defeat humbly themselves? And honestly, how come they were suddenly ok with it when their own sons said they wanted a choice to decide whom to marry, that’s downright hypocritical of them! They just didn’t want to listen it from a woman, that’s the truth of it. Selfless is all about making a decision for someone else’s better, not thinking about your own happiness. She choose to say yes to marriage knowing full that she won’t be happy but it would save her mother. That is called being selfless, though she learnt it much later and she wasn’t selfless at all inherently. And how she used the same lesson “Legends are lessons, they ring with truth” to bring about the peace, means she was in fact very much listening to it the first time her mother told it but she just didn’t comprehend its meaning in full depth back then. She stands up for what’s right: She didn’t ignite that war, as explained above. She tried to tell her father that bear in the castle is actually Elinor but he didn’t listen in his rage to avenge his wife. If he would have listened, they wouldn’t be in that situation of killing his own wife. She could have given up knowing she was locked, but she didn’t, and wouldn’t. A person can only stand for what they think or believe is right. How can a person stand for something which they don’t understand if it’s right or wrong in first place? And what is universally right in marriage? A person who doesn’t want to get married is as right as a person who wants to. Good people don’t start problems deliberately, some problems build up which was clearly the case here, because both neglected the right way to resolve them. So it’s commendable for them to be able to resolve it in given time. Problems are part of life, even good people face it, most times unintentionally create them. But what makes them good is their effort towards resolving the problem and not cribbing about it only. Would the spell have broken if Elinor wouldn’t have changed her views herself? I completely disagree with you here. It was deliberately shown that Elinor changed her mind and guided Merida into “breaking tradition” in front of all clans. I disagree that Elinor was first to break her pride. It was Merida who decided first to go inside and say yes to marriage despite it not being her choice. Only when Elinor was impressed and satisfied with Merida;s speech and felt pride in her daughter finally handling things in mature way, did she decide to ask Merida take that step. Elinor could have told Merida outside the castle that she didn’t have to marry, that would have been bending the pride first, not after seeing Merida calming the clan. It was absolutely about pride of both, mending the bond torn by pride of both. Like Merida had split the tapestry, Elinor too had thrown her bow into fire. Elinor’s part was already over in accepting her daughter’s choice in her heart and believing in it whole heartedly, while Merida still needed to give her apology and confess that she loved her to finally break the spell. If it wasn’t that way, Merida would be shown to get married, by accepting her mistake all the way and there wouldn’t have been any need for Elinor to accept Merida’s wrong demand. Thanks for posting the long comment as promised and making so much effort for this, i do enjoy it and appreciate it very much!

laylastepford Thanks for indulging me in this conversation about Merida! I'm glad you were willing to discuss her in long comments and debates because she has honestly grown on me a lot since you and I started talking about her. :D 4. sub point: “I don’t agree that Merida has grown comfortable because of her mother’s neglect but she chose to be isolated” I agree with you as with my point 3 that Elinor is the adult and therefore more responsible. You are right, she is the parent so the duty falls on her. I just meant more that I didn't think her mother was "neglectful". :D 6. "About not being reckless or rash at all: this was only in context of taking decisions in regards to her betrothal only." I agree with you that she is more immature than reckless. I didn't consider what you said about Merida knowing her own boundaries and I agree that makes her less reckless to me. That being said however, I do still find it to be a bit reckless that she did the Falls of Fire hike because she told no one she was going to do it and if something had happened to her, no one would've known. I see your point though that it wasn't quite as reckless as I initially considered. However I disagree with you that professional rock climbers etc. are "not reckless" and that "people who do not know how to [mountain climb etc.] see it as reckless. Reckless means "not thinking or caring about the consequences" which is [i]exactly[/i] what the professional climbers are doing, being reckless and not caring about the consequences. I would say that Merida does think about them and knows about them so she isn't being impulsively reckless but I do still believe she was being reckless nonetheless though not with the negative connotation it usually comes with. I mean it more "X games" reckless. About Merida “accidentally and unintentionally” changing her mother into a bear: What I am trying to say is that when you rely on a spell and put your trust in it, then it doesn’t matter what your intentions were because you knew you were cheating. Does that make sense? I do consider it to be a distinct difference between trying to turn her mother into a bear and looking for an easy way out but I think those are both distinctly different from healthier alternatives. Does that kind of clear it up? I agree with you though and it’s a good point of you to note that she wasn’t looking for magic when she found it. I see where you are coming from with her trusting the willow –of –the-wisps because of what her mother said when younger. I just think she should’ve been as alert with the witch and potion as she normally was in the wilderness, if that makes sense? “ I didn’t say that “Elinor didn’t give it a single thought about it (marriage) ever”. Perhaps you misread it, I said Merida hadn’t given a single thought about it ever before.” Oh! I’m so sorry! Perhaps I did misread or misinterpret somewhere. Thank you for clearing that up! :D About Merida “outing her parents” – Oh okay. I suppose this was a colloquial difference which is why I didn’t understand what you meant. Usually whenever I have heard the phrase “outing someone” it meant to tell a secret about them, usually a deep dark secret that would really hurt them which was why I was confused at what you meant at first. You are right that she does try more than her rebellious nature wants to and I do commend that highly. I am just looking at this from the point of views of the warriors because they have feelings too. They are asked to compete for this woman’s hand and she is the first woman to prove how much they suck. It would be like telling a girl that she was so hideous, a man looked better in a dress than she did because she was so ugly. That is why they were so hurt, because they were expected to come and compete not be humiliated. I just want to point out if you don’t remember that they had no idea Merida would get involved nor that she didn’t want to be involved so they were thinking that Merida was ready for them. I think this is important to note and makes it more important to consider their feelings. I blame Elinor more for this situation than Merida for reasons we spoke of already (not telling her about ceremony before sending invitations especially). The cultural expectations weren’t wrongly set, Elinor’s expectations were wrongly set for Merida and Merida wasn’t meeting the expectations put on her. I hope I explained to you why Merida humiliated and embarrassed those men by entering the contest and beating them. I don’t think it was entirely her fault, mostly Elinor’s but a little bit of both of their faults. “What truth Merida isn’t listening from Elinor?” I think Merida doesn’t see things from Elinor’s point of view which is why I sasy it is insulting to Elinor because it’s not like Elinor wanted this life or was ready for it but Merida wasn’t. Elinor just respected the law and her position more and I don’t think Merida is as sensitive to the monumental change that she is trying to make and how disrespectful it is to her culture and tradition. I’m not talking about right or wrong, I am talking about respect and consideration. Elinor doesn’t think in terms of freedom like people do today because she didn’t grow up that way. It was an anomaly for Merida to be so rebellious and since Merida wanted to change an entire way of culture in society, she needed to learn how to do that without disrespecting all of those who had been choosing to follow their tradition. Does that make sense? Of course Elinor is comparing Merida to herself because she has already lived through this event/transition so that only makes sense. Merida is making up a new tradition though and I don’t think she understands what she is asking of everyone else, including Elinor. She is asking Elinor to tell herself that she was wrong to follow the law and marry Fergus because things need to change for people to find their own love partner. I hope you understand; I am looking at it from both sides here. It is asking a lot of someone to tell them that everything they have been taught about their traditions, mindsets, way of life etc. is wrong… Especially when you are younger than them and they are supposed to know better. Merida wasn’t considering how big of a favor she was asking for. I agree with you that it is very rude and disrespectful to call someone graceless and having no etiquettes simply because someone is not good in wording their communication. So I guess it’s a good thing that I never did that. :D I called Merida “graceless and having no etiquettes” because of the way she takes one bite of an apple then throws it away, puts her weapons on the table, laugh and snorts when her father gets attacked by hawk instead of trying to help him, interrupts her dad’s story and tells his favorite part instead of letting him finish it, steals food from the kitchen and feeds it to her brothers behind her mother’s back, stuff her face with food too big for her mouth, and other things like that. :D Merida is a princess not an elder, so I don’t know where you got that “she has every right to counter-argument” because that’s not true for her society and culture. I am saying that Merida is not looking at the situation from a balanced point of view when she questions her mother so much without any punishment and claims things are “unfair”. She is not realizing how “unfair” her life is for the better than most other people. If Merida only needed more time, then wouldn’t it have been a good thing to simply slow down the process a bit? I think Merida would’ve been fine with another show of talent, as long as it was the next year or in a few years. I thought you just said Merida wasn’t rebelling against marriage itself but just for more time yet then you said Merida “just simply didn’t want to get married” so would you mind please clarifying for me? About Merida never wanting to hurt her mother: I know that it is your personal belief that Merida should have a final say in her marriage decision but I hope you remember that you are thinking out of context. In Elinor’s time, it wasn’t Merida who should have the final say on Merida’s marriages but actually Fergus. I don’t think it’s proper to expect Elinor to have the same values as other people do from the future who live in a completely different world. Merida keeping her cool: I don’t agree with you when you say that “I don’t agree at all with that Merida chose to stay put and logically weighed talking with mother as best option to save herself. If that was the case, she would have kicked, thrown something back out of fear and survival instincts.” I think you misunderstand somehow. If someone is logical then they would not kick and throw. You are mistaking a logical reaction with an impulsive reaction here. “If Merida is that selfish, tell me something, why does she even bother to bring her mother back?” Because she’s still a human! All humans love their mothers and don’t want to lose them and I don’t think Merida is a sociopath or anything crazy like that to not love her mother. She’d have to be a villain to leave her mom that way, not selfish. I thought she did know the spell had a time frame which is why they only had until the sun came up again at those rocks (that kind of looked like Stonehenge)? She CAN sacrifice her happiness: Again, you are talking out of context here which I think is really unfair. It was Merida who was putting Elinor in a dangerous position by asking her to break tradition and insult her entire culture. As far as Elinor knew of, she wasn’t taking away any freedom because she had never experienced the “freedom” to choose a suitor so that’s like a foreign idea to her. I think you don’t understand because you keep taking it out of context which isn’t fair to the characters or story. Elinor didn’t take away Merida’s choice because Merida never had a choice. That’s why Merida makes it so that she can have a choice. It’s a revolutionary thing she did. You say “Imagine saying yes to being married without your consent in it, how happy would you be?” Well it depends. If I was raised to believe that I should have a choice but not given one, then I wouldn’t be happy. However, if I grew up believing that it was just another duty in life to make the best of, then how happy I would be would depend on the match that my parents found for me. I didn’t think she meant all what she said about her mom in the speech when her mom was a bear, only at the end. I thought she was just saying all of that stuff because it worked with the clans. At the end I thought she was 210% sincere though. Are you sure you believe no one should ever be forced into saying something they didn’t 100% believe? Because people do that all the time to avoid problems. If a husband thinks his wife looks fat and she asks him if she does, do you think he should not say “no” because he doesn’t 100% believe in it? Sometimes we do have to lie because it is the appropriate thing to do. “She didn’t cause a war at all! Clans wouldn’t accept that she was better talented from all their sons and was still claiming for her hand and were threatening to go into war if she wouldn’t give a decision. Why can’t they just accept defeat humbly themselves?” Because they were asked to be there remember? They were asked to show up and compete so to be humiliated and sent away would just be cruel. It’s not Merida’s fault that Elinor sent out the invitations without her knowing but it’s unrealistic to expect those men to be ahead of their time and okay with public humiliation. Also they weren’t okay with it when their sons wanted to decide to marry, they just couldn’t fight all 3 boys + Merida. I think you’re reaching way too far when you say “They just didn’t want to listen it from a woman, that’s the truth of it.” That’s not the truth of it, they just had to deal with it once all of the teenagers were united on it. :) I agree with you and am glad you brought up the point that since she recited that same lesson her mother told her, it meant she was actually listening even though she didn’t understand it. I think that is important and a very good thing. She stands up for what’s right: She did take place in igniting that war, just like Elinor as I explained above. If Merida had not fed her mother the magic cake, then her father wouldn’t have been in the position to kill her. It’s unrealistic to expect him to believe her that her mother is actually a magically transformed bear. Also remember in the beginning when Merida said she saw the wisps, her mother said “Your father doesn’t believe in magic” so she should’ve known he wouldn’t believe her story. It’s not fair to expect someone to believe something that sounds crazy. I was making the point that Merida isn’t like a hero who stands for what is right for “all people”. She only stands for what is right for her. That’s what I mean about personal vs universal. I already did say it’s commendable to resolve a problem you caused but I still believe it more commendable not to cause the problem. If you are cautious and aware, then you are less likely to have unexpected problems because you do things to proactively avoid them. I commend that way higher than creating a problem and then solving it which was what Merida did. Problems are a part of life so I don’t believe you should do things to create more problems or make them worse. If someone told you that what you’re doing will cause a problem and you choose not to listen to them, then I think you are doing it intentionally because you don’t want to listen to the truth. “Would the spell have broken if Elinor wouldn’t have changed her views herself?” I still completely disagree with you because the boys didn’t change at all and the spell broke for them. Yes Elinor changed but she didn’t have to for the spell to break, that was just a nice bonus for Merida. :D Also Elinor was the first to break her pride because she was always the first to apologize and first to try to mend things between them. Merida didn’t decide to accept the marriage until after Elinor was already a bear. She bent her pride first all the time and Merida proves that when she says “You were always there for me” even when she fought her. Since the movie was appealing to American feminist women who don’t want to see Merida forced to be married, I think you are wrong about the way the movie would’ve ended since it had a clear feminist agenda. Elinor didn’t need to break the spell, only Merida did but feminists would’ve protested Disney if they made the movie end with a forced marriage which is why Elinor had to change too. :) If Elinor had to change for the spell then so the brothers would have had to have changed to and we know they didn’t change at all. :)

anukriti2409 ^I agree with you when you say Merida should have been much more careful about the spell, much like she is in wilderness. She did jump at the opportunity despite being warned by witch herself, “too many unsatisfied customers” “Are you sure you know what you are doing” and she wasn’t sure at all, but she just couldn’t clear her head enough to see a more plausible solution and just jumped at something in which she had make the least of effort. I can see where you are coming from, warriors being humiliated in the public. I suppose, yes they would feel humiliated despite the truth as they weren’t expected it. I can also give them points for not crowding Merida at that time itself but looked towards Queen to explain first before they reacted more harshly to it. I agree with you there. I just keep wishing that people are more strong to handle simple truths than be offended by it. Being offended didn’t nullify the truth that Merida was simply more talented and they should have respected it. I would greatly admire such warrior who can see past their own weakness. But I can agree that because such behavior was unexpected, they would have to feel humiliated. Should they have been warned that Merida would be competing too, I can give them benefit of doubt and say they’d be more composed in their reactions. I completely agree that Merida doesn’t realize what she’s asking Queen to do by changing traditions. It definitely wouldn’t be as easy as she makes it sound, “call off the ceremony, she’s the Queen, she can do that.” And she’s not being sensitive about the issue either. She should have been more tactful about it. I guess this is what she learns mostly when she faces the angry clans, how to voice your opinions in more tactful manner, sound respectful and give due humility for them to be able to accept such a big change. I also agree that she was trying to change an entire way of thinking, traditions that were followed through generations, but unfortunately patience and communication weren;t her strong suits for her to guide her better. She did learn them later, from her own mistakes that ensued from wrong communication and impatient behavior. Yes, I’m looking it from an idealistic point of view rather than what would have been right in their times. That is how we progress in society, learning that all traditions are not healthy, they are unfair to some people in society. Like exchanging daughters/princess to maintain peace between kingdoms is definitely not a good way. They are not non-living objects that one can simply exchange. They are humans, have intellect and feelings of their own, and would need to contribute to wherever they go to live. It is important for them to be able to make this transition on their own, with their belief in it set as strong as knowing a truth rather than making a compromise out of it. They should also have a provision in case they do not want to pursue this line of action. So, yes, that is how I’m evaluating Elinor’s way of thinking. Being a Queen it was also her duty to understand what things needed to change for better future kingdom. That is why some rulers have been proclaimed as progressive and visionaries who thought ahead of their times and understood that wave of change in society, like Ceasar, Akbar, Asoka, Constantine before it brought chaos to their kingdoms. Time vs. choice argument: I was saying that she needed time to adjust better to the situation that her mother had called for suitors competing for her hand in betrothal and to communicate to her mother that she didn’t want to get married at all. She needed time to talk to her mother but she needed a choice to not get married at all. Does this make sense? I’m saying as a daughter, she should have the right to explain her view point, although she doesn’t do it in best of manners, I agree. But however form, she shouldn’t just be silenced just because her opinions contradict Queen’s or someone else’s. This means people are not open to different point of view or change in life and are not open to listening to someone else’s opinions. I agree she can choose her words better, which is the major problem with her, her communication. I also meant that if Merida was selfish enough, she’d have been inclined to find a solution for her mother post when she has resolved her own problem of choosing a suitor. Because she didn’t know right when Elinor turned into a bear that if the spell is temporary or permanent. She could have said, “let me talk to dad about sending the clans away, first and then deal with you turning into a human again”. This would have shown that she always thought of herself first, no matter what. She made sure her mother was secure foremost, by getting her out of castle. She only got to know about the spell duration when she took Elinor, safely out of castle, back to witch’s cottage where witch’s recorded message was revealed about spell becoming permanent after second sunrise. So despite not knowing about the spell’s duration beforehand, she looked after her mother’s security as her first priority. I think you are misreading my comment on Merida’s reaction on when Elinor tried to attack her as real bear. What I said, she didn’t run away or tried to kick or throw something at the bear as she kept her cool and believed that despite aggressive-looking-bear, she still was her mother and stood her ground. I said, she must have been scared by that attack but she kept her cool and didn’t budge from her position. I see your point when you say “Elinor didn’t take away choice coz in her mind Merida couldn’t have a choice”. Yes, I can see that. What I meant by Merida being able to sacrifice her happiness is this: Since she was fighting for a good reason or a good change and she had tried everything she could so far to bring about that change, she didn’t succeed for reasons of her own fault and her mother’s. Now when it came to the point that if she were to choose between her happiness and her mother’s life, she chose her mother’s life, despite knowing she was fighting a good change. That’s why I find it commendable that only after fighting her war, where feelings were hurt and questions were raised, did she came to deciding that some things can be more important than herself. I find this quality very much commendable because she tried and put her efforts before letting it go. At least, even later she wouldn’t feel compromised and knew that her sacrifice was well worth it – for her kingdom’s peace and her mother’s life and that she didn’t simply surrendered to situation without even giving it a fair fight for her own dreams. I know that Fergus wouldn’t believe in magic and his only intent was the protection of his daughter which was very much fair. I’m saying that how Merida learnt that shouting and throwing a fit isn’t a solution to any problem, I think Fergus also couldn’t see past his anger and fear to what his daughter was saying. He did believe it later on that the bear was actually Elinor when Merida fiercely stood her grounds against him killing Elinor and when he saw 3 little bear cubs to whom Merida referred as “boys”. I see your point that Merida, of course, was a part in igniting the war, bringing her mother to this situation but I’m saying is she doesn’t back off in fear of facing problems, she stands her ground and fight to resolve it. I agree that it is far “more” commendable to not cause problems in first place. But I give points to Merida a little bit more as it was not caused solely by herself only. I think we can agree to disagree on how the spell broke – by both of them changing or only Merida’s. As I stand by my way of seeing it. :) It is absolutely my pleasure to indulge in long conversation on Merida’s character as I have never seen anyone enough passionate about Merida as I am around here. She’s hardly ever discussed, most people jus brush her off as being obnoxious and rude, which I think is utterly unfair and disrespectful. But it’s okay, Merida will always have a fan in me :)

anukriti2409 ^also, on being forced to say things that one may not believe in 100%: Yes, i'm a sucker when it comes to honesty. I think people often mistake telling a truth in gentle ways to changing it a bit for better cause. For ex: i think husband should say, "Darling, you may be fat but you still are very much beautiful and dear to me." That is telling the full truth in gentle way rather than saying "you are not "that" fat" I do believe that saying/doing things that one do not believe in tends to raise deeper problems later than sooner. I think people should become strong enough to handle truth and not take it as offensive when said bluntly also, ideally speaking. Coz truth won;t change and lies will only add to confusion/hurt/false hope.

laylastepford ^I agree with you that if the warriors had known that Merida would be competing too, even if they didn’t like it, then I would expect them to take it better than they did though I think they did take it pretty well and it was really their fathers who blew up. I agree that them being offended did not nullify the truth. I also agree with you, in that I wish people were stronger and able to handle more simple truths than being offended by it as well. Unfortunately, when we say that “everyone is equal” and we have to “respect everyone’s feelings and opinions” then we get people who feel like they can’t be wrong or don’t like the way it feels to be corrected so we can’t just be honest even though it would be more efficient and balanced. That is why I always try to stick to more truths proved by math, science and evidence than relying on “feelings and emotions” which are incredibly subjective and flighty. This is also why I always find it so important to make a distinction between when I am talking about my opinion and what I have found to be proven true. I think that’s why it was such an important lesson for Merida to see the clans going crazy in the beginning (including her father) and how her mother’s control paid off because she was the only one to get everyone to calm down and stop fighting and make a plan to stall things. I think this proved to Merida that her mother’s lessons went beyond just “doing things like a princess” and finally realized the implications and responsibilities that her mother was trying to gear her for that came with such a high position. I don’t think Merida learned just about communication but also about her emotions and learning which battles to choose and how to fight them. I personally believe it is easier to go from Elinor’s position and loosen up a bit then it is to go from Merida’s free-range position and suddenly have to conform and “change”. This is why I understand why parents will often lean more towards being strict with children younger as they can choose their own freedoms later so that they don’t exploit their freedom while young and not learn the moral lessons and values needed in adult life. Obviously I believe the key is trying to find the balance between teaching the kids what they need to know and letting them have their freedom as children. I kind of love Merida, honestly, but some things she does I just cannot relate to at all and they disappoint me greatly. The biggest example is when she told her mother that she would rather die than be like her. That is so extreme and awful to say. My mom was a horrible, awful person who was far worse with me than Elinor ever was to Merida and even I never talked to my mother like that even though I had more of a right to then Merida. I just think that was an awfully hurtful thing to say to her and it was before Elinor threw the bow in the fire. Then Merida ripped the quilt after saying that which made it worse, adding insult to injury. I think that was one thing that really killed Merida for me the first time around. I saw that and thought “what a horrible spoiled brat to say such an awful thing to her mother just because she doesn’t understand this revolutionary change she wants to make”. What do you think about the way she handled this situation and why she reacted that way? Yes, I agree with you that not all traditions are healthy and unfair to some people in society which is why I do not value all traditions the same. (Which goes back to our conversation a while ago about Ariel wanting to leave her culture for a new culture. I don’t think her culture was unfair to her but I thought it was fair that she should have the freedom to choose the culture that she felt best suited her as long as it wasn’t hurting anyone outside of emotions.) I completely agree with you that women are not objects to be given to men for peace, though I recognize that they were the luckiest women in their time if given to a great man because they’d live better than the other women. So it is all a balance and trade. I agree with you though and I prefer cultures that do not see women this way and allow them to pursue their hearts instead, as long as they do so with morals and integrity towards children. I understand what you are saying about progressive thinking but I believe that fell more on Fergus who chose not to be involved than Elinor. He was great but not as supportive in that situation. He should’ve offered to talk with Elinor and Merida since he understands both and tried to communicate as a family. I think he was wrong to force Elinor to do it alone. I think this also touches to what you mentioned about him not listening to Merida saying Elinor was a bear. Elinor and Fergus had their own communication issues and unfortunately Merida inherited them so all 3 of them needed to fix their communication skills. Time vs. choice argument: Yes, what you said makes sense to me. I see your points. I don’t think Merida’s opinions should be silenced because they contradict the Queen’s eithers. I don’t think anyone’s opinions should be silenced. I was just saying Merida should recognize the bigger picture that what while she thinks life is unfair for her, there are many people who would say it wasn’t fair that Merida had more leeway with the Queen just for being her daughter. Does that make sense? Just that I wish Merida was looking at things from bigger perspective I guess. That’s why I see her as being somewhat selfish, because she isn’t thinking about how things affect others. As you pointed out, she wrote it off easily “You’re the Queen, can’t you just call it off?” and her mother even said “You have no idea what you just did.” Though she didn’t make it more understandable which was Elinor’s fault. I agree with you though that Merida is not entirely selfish as she did think of her mother’s safety before trying to reason with her father about the marriage. I just thought she knew there was a time limit from going back to the witch’s cottage and when her mother was acting like a bear inside. I guess I was misreading your comment before about Elinor attacking Merida (or there was some miscommunication somewhere) but I understand what you’re saying now. I never came from Merida’s point of view so it was hard for me to see your point at first but I think you have explained it very well now. I was thinking idealistically that Merida didn’t have these faulty traits so I didn’t like the actions that resulted but you were saying that she was born with these traits so she was going to pursue them but then she learned the balance of them. Would that be correct? I agree with you that we agree to disagree on how the spell broke. I would just like to ask you one question has to how you would explain the boys changing back in the curse if they did not have to make any fixes or changes or did you think they did etc? :) I think *part* of the dislike for Merida honestly stems from the fact that she is Pixar and a lot of people see it as somewhat anti-DP in a way, if that makes sense? I don’t feel that way since Toy Story is so affectionately associated as Disney but I know there are quite a few people who don’t agree with me. In addition to that, I believe her image was very much pushed as a “feminist princess” and let me tell you that the American feminists with power are incredibly obnoxious and rude so I think some people associated her with that immediately and didn’t like the taste. That was the issue for me. I just saw her as the “feminist princess” who was rude and selfish like the American feminists who pay for representation. The whole beginning of the film with Merida fighting with her mom only added to that and helped to make it harder to see her differently by the end of the film. I have watched the film a few times now (as I have seen all DP films many times) and I realize the subtleties in her character that other people aren’t giving as much attention to. I think the media often misrepresents some of the DPs as I have recently re-watched all of the DP films and realized so many subtleties in many of the characters that get overlooked in media representations. Primarily with Snow White, Aurora, Ariel, Belle, Mulan, Merida and Elsa. It has been most wonderful chatting with you about Merida’s character and getting to analyze her with your input. Thank you very much for it. :D Perhaps one day we will get to Jasmine after all, one day after we’ve talked about many of the other ones first. :) I agree with you about honesty which is why I said earlier that I don’t admire the “politically correct” media so much as I don’t like the idea of lying to make everyone feel that everything is equal. Sometimes things are right and sometimes they are wrong and I believe we should be able to talk about them honestly in order to understand the truth and balance of our topic. That being said, I also believe in “time and place” as a part of balance so I believe that there is a time and place for everything. Sometimes the truth is more appropriate (most times) but in some cases depending on the time or place, the truth is not most appropriate and therefore not the balanced answer. I believe that balance is a combination of “truth and appropriateness” together.

anukriti2409 ^Oh, I was referring to the clan’s leaders only (fathers) when I mentioned Warriors. I suppose, the prince were yet to make their own names so far and were only following what was expected of them from their fathers. I also refer to scientific truth but unfortunately we haven’t yet proven a lot of things when it comes to feelings/emotions and how do they control our behavior and where do they truly originate from. I understand emotions are result of hormones in our bodies but why certain hormones result in a specific action, is still much debated. I agree with you 100% with “ I personally believe it is easier to go from Elinor’s position and loosen up a bit then it is to go from Merida’s free-range position and suddenly have to conform and “change”. This is why I understand why parents will often lean more towards being strict with children younger as they can choose their own freedoms later so that they don’t exploit their freedom while young and not learn the moral lessons and values needed in adult life” Oh I can see how someone will be repulsed with Merida’s reaction of splitting the quilt and mouthing off hurtful words. I can tell you from personal experience that when a person loves someone (especially mother), you somehow have high expectations from them. Contrary to the belief that such kids do not value their parents, I personally, held them to almost pedestal of perfection. I always thought that since we love each other, we’ll always understand each other and that she’ll do whatever will be right for my happiness and my future. I never thought that her right would be different from my right. So when we had difference of opinions on things, especially big decisions like Career (in my case) and Marriage (in Merida’s case), I simply couldn’t believe that the perfect relation would be torn by simple disagreement of opinions and she’d not be able to see what I truly wanted that would make me happy. This was almost earth-shattering, considering I never expected my mother to take a wrong decision for me ever in my life., that could result in severe implications on my future that I wouldn’t want. I was simply unable to overcome the feelings of loss of faith and trust in her by practicality and maturity and was unable to make her understand my point of view through communication. It hurt so bad inside that it always came out in harsher and harsher words, which always only meant that “Why! Why can’t you see beyond yourself and listen to my heart” whereas it was equally my fault to shut her out and not show her what I wanted to actually say in the first place. And that’s why I place so much importance on feelings. As much as they are flighty, they convey deeper truths which I have noticed people find difficult to express the most. I suppose Merida (as she in her head is thinking she’s showing her mother why she doesn’t want to get married by her actions), broke down to express her hurt, her anger, her disappointment which she was never able to formulate in words. I think that is why Elinor’s maturity also went for a toss when she threw Merida’s bow in the fire coz she’s so emotionally connected with Merida and desperately wanted her to understand her point of view as well. But I’d say it was very much Merida’s fault as it never resolves the problem by mouthing off hurtful words, it may relieve you of some bubbling tension inside you, but problem stays as is. I think I disagree with you when you say Merida shouldn’t get leeway just because she’s Elinor’s daughter. Well, even prince will get the throne just by being son to Fergus, so ideally Merida should also have some advantages more than the civilians in how she can communicate with Elinor. Besides, civilians are not emotionally attached to Queen but Merida is. And Elinor is playing both roles at that time, a mother as well as Queen, so should Merida, a princess and a daughter. I agree that Merida fails at playing princess role to the ground and should have definitely looked at bigger picture. Yes, that would be correct that she learned eventually to balance the traits she was born with, with the ones she acquired through her lessons. Looking at the bigger picture, I find triplets turning back to humans by helping Merida the second time, getting out of locked room to help their mother without asking for a bribe, like they did the first time, as an act of mending the bond. They learnt to help without asking for favors. Yes, I can see where the hate for Merida would stem from being a Pixar production as well as having the image of “feminist princess”. I completely agree with you with Snow White, Aurora and Elsa character’s subtleties being missed by people. Although, I’m not really sue of Mulan, Belle and Ariel to be misunderstood as much. I find the thought of balance of truth with appropriateness a good way of tackling more complicated issues in life, and sometimes it does help more than the blunt truth. Until the time, people are more open towards hearing truth in simplicity, I think balance is a good way to communicate. So sorry, it took me really long to reply back. And I’m so happy that you have found a little love for Merida despite her faulty personality :)

laylastepford ^ I don’t know where you got your information from but we have actually proven tons of things when it comes to feelings and emotions and how they control our behavior etc. Most of our emotions stem from the time period when we started living in caves and speaking and when we first started evolving. A lot of our thoughts, feelings and behaviors actually have a root from our past. Anthropologists and psychologists have similar intertwining studies in those ways. What “certain hormones resulting in a specific action” do you think are still debated? I see what you are saying and I am glad you got to understand that Merida and Elinor were really in the same position on opposite sides in most ways. I care about emotions too but balanced emotions that are not erratic, self-centered, exploitive, abusive or overdramatic etc. I understand where you are coming from about why Merida ripped the quilt and spoke to her mother so nastily as she felt bottled up to explode in a strict environment. I never said Merida shouldn’t get leeway just because she’s Elinor’s daughter, I think you keep misunderstanding me. I am merely trying to say that no other girls in the land get to talk to the Queen the way Merida does so Merida should recognize that not everything in the world is 100% fair therefore “it’s not fair” is not a valid argument against her duties of marriage. Her want for personal freedom is more of a valid argument than “it’s not fair”. That is my point. “Looking at the bigger picture, I find triplets turning back to humans by helping Merida the second time, getting out of locked room to help their mother without asking for a bribe, like they did the first time, as an act of mending the bond. They learnt to help without asking for favors.” NOW I can see your argument of why Elinor would have to change for the spell to break too. :) Now it makes more sense altogether. I say Mulan, Belle and Ariel are misunderstood/misrepresented because: 1) Mulan always gets portrayed as a tomboy who dislikes girly girls, romance and anything feminine. Yet in the film she is somewhat of a feminine tomboy who just believes in following her heart whether she likes flowers and tea or chess and strategy games. She doesn’t care as much about gender as the people do who like to hail her as the gender-role reversal princess. 2) Belle always gets portrayed as some indoor mousy bookworm who doesn’t really like being outdoors. Yet in the film she loves the outdoors and wants to travel “in the great wide somewhere… more than [she] can tell” and stays only to look after her father. She’s much more outdoorsy than the people like to portray her as. 3) Ariel often gets portrayed as a sweet, romantic but playful girl next door type who doesn’t really create much of a fuss. Yet in the film she is quite spoiled and can be very rude and self-centered, putting her own wants and needs above all others and being into more extreme physical activities rather than just sweet and romantic ones. Obviously that is all just my perception though. :) I agree balance is a good way to communicate but I also hope that it would swing more towards being more “blunt” or straight to the point as I agree that trying to “soften the blow” of the truth can sometimes lose important nuances or points etc. in translation. No worries about the long time to respond! I am happy I am able to understand Merida better as well since there were always some things I loved and some things that confused me. I have enjoyed such a deep analysis of her character. :D

laylastepford BTW: What do you think about Belle and Merida being friends? I would love your opinion as someone who has those 2 as their top 2 favorites. Personally, I think they could be good friends though maybe not "BFFs". I think they would interact with each other very similar to the way you and I interact in a lot of ways. We have much of our core beliefs etc in common with some different details, most likely based on our different experiences, how we were raised and our genetics. I think the same would be true for Merida and Belle, they have many of the same core beliefs and even personality traits in common but they have some different affectations. I see Belle as being very similar to Elinor except not as strict and rigged as Elinor so I think Merida and Belle would get along better than Merida & Elinor. I also think Beast is more stubborn than Merida yet Belle was able to find common ground and constructive communication with him so I think she would do it even easier with Merida. Here is my argument: I think Merida would admire Belle's grace, balance and communication skills without coming off overly demure or as any kind of doormat. I think Belle would admire Merida's self-confidence and skillset out in nature. Since Belle loves the outdoors (and her horse), I think she would enjoy going horseback riding with Merida. I even think Belle would love checking out creepy/haunted/mysterious places with Merida but I don't think Belle would want to climb things like Fire Falls with Merida. She probably wouldn't mind going along though, to make sure Merida was safe. I think Belle would enjoy spending time with Merida doing physical outdoorsy and adventurous activities. I think Merida would enjoy learning how to communicate better and be more balanced from Belle without feeling overly criticized or terribly out-graced (like say, Aurora or Cinderella might make her feel). I think they both like adventure, both have a deep loyalty to family, both have a desire to go on their own path, both can be outspoken, both are spunky and can get feisty when they feel pushed, both have a natural curiosity that can get them in trouble, both have a desire to travel and see the world and both didn't want to settle with someone that was pushed to them. :)

anukriti2409 ^I'll try to re-look for the source of information on how much emotions are controlled by hormones and not time period as I had read that long time back. And how hormonal imbalances leads to imbalance in our actions. That is why teenage is considered to be most imbalanced age where emotions are running high, as they are going under lot of hormonal changes in the body. This is just one of the examples. Another example is how we react in fear - some people gets transfixed while some become hyper active. It is not sure how the same fear inducing hormone results in two polar opposite reaction in bodies. Okay, now i see your point on why Merida shouldn't take leeway with Queen in communication. I agree with you here. I think Belle and Merida will be great friends too. I agree with all of your assessment, having same core beliefs and different details. I think they'd also have clashing arguments in beginning but would appreciate each other's qualities much more to become an obstacle in their friendship. I absolutely agree that she'll fee comfortable learning form Belle rather than the Classics, as she'll always feel overly-criticized even though they wouldn't mean it. Their common love for adventure will give them fun to bond over. I also think that both Belle and Merida cares for their families in much quieter ways and are very fiercely protective of them. This will also be another deeper connection between them. and both have an overall happy and cheerful outlook with fond memories from childhood. Both kind of enjoy solitary state as well, as they cherish their independence.

laylastepford ^ Please do. Emotions are chemical reactions and hormones are chemicals in the brain so it makes perfect sense that our hormones affect our emotions as it is all chemically-based. :D I agree with all of your examples. Thank you so much for giving me your feedback on a potential Belle and Merida friendship! It helps so much to have your input! :D A lot of people thought they would not be friends but I'm glad you agree with me that they could be. :)

anukriti2409 ^since I'm growing from being Merida to be Belle, i think i'll like to be friends my past self :D

laylastepford I can see that and I think those of us who want to grow, like to be friends with the people who inspire us by being the way that we would like to see ourselves on the flip end. :D